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Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59478
11/05/05 06:31 PM
11/05/05 06:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,094
England
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swingal Offline
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England
As I said before, it must be down to the concentration of weight in one small area like the caster wheel on the floor. The more you spread the load the better it is. Similar to the Stiletto Heels which can make a sharp impact on wooden floors compared to a flat heel.

Alan

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Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59479
11/05/05 06:33 PM
11/05/05 06:33 PM
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Posts: 181
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mjg100 Offline
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"Contractors are not known for their interest in grand pianos and piano playing."

I am a General Contractor, but I do not do residential work. smile

Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59480
11/05/05 07:05 PM
11/05/05 07:05 PM
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Posts: 181
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mjg100 Offline
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"Contractors are not known for their interest in grand pianos and piano playing."

I am a General Contractor, but I do not do residential work. smile

Contractors do not need to know anything about pianos to answer this problem. It does not matter if we are talking about a piano, a safe or an aquarium. We are talking about weight of a piano not the piano. If you tell a contractor that you plan on having a grand piano in the middle of a 2nd floor room and probably will entertain 20 or 30 people in that same room, I bet you would be hard pressed to find a contractor that would not recommend beefing up the floor structure even though the structure would probably support the weight with out collapsing. You obviously do not want a floor to collapse, but you also do not want a floor to deflect more than (length/360) or bounce. Have you not walked on a floor and see, hear or feel the vibrations of the floor shaking. I have felt this on many new homes that met code, but had long spans. It would be unacceptable to me. One of my other pet peeves is walking through a really nice home (in a parade of homes show) that used hollow core doors.

Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59481
11/05/05 07:22 PM
11/05/05 07:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,426
New York
Derick II Offline
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When I had my house built, the builder knew that I was putting a 900 lb grand piano in the living-room. He never suggested reinforcing the floor - although he made lots of other suggestions and charged big bucks for them. He also never reinforced the floor. The builder had built many houses in the past and was never sued for pianos or refrigerators or waterbeds or football player sized drag queens in high-heels falling thru the floor.

I think a builder recommending reinforcing the floor for a grand piano is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Perhaps a sign should be permanently posted outside the front door stating the maximum number of allowable people in the house at one time with the caveat to "subtract 20" from that number if a grand piano is present.

Derick


"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

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Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59482
11/05/05 07:35 PM
11/05/05 07:35 PM
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Posts: 494
CSG Offline
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Gorgeous piano, Derick. Love the music desk.


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Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59483
11/05/05 07:36 PM
11/05/05 07:36 PM
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Posts: 181
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mjg100 Offline
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I would not be worried about the piano falling through the floor. I would be concerned with deflection, bounce and vibration.

Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59484
11/05/05 07:37 PM
11/05/05 07:37 PM
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Posts: 181
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mjg100 Offline
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Derick, I forgot to post. Nice piano. smile

Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59485
11/05/05 07:39 PM
11/05/05 07:39 PM
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Posts: 181
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mjg100 Offline
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Derick, I forgot to post. Nice piano. smile

Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59486
11/05/05 07:39 PM
11/05/05 07:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,426
New York
Derick II Offline
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New York
Thank-you. I'm very happy with the look, not to mention the tone.

Derick


"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

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Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59487
11/05/05 07:40 PM
11/05/05 07:40 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 340
Chicago, Illinois
NorthAmerican Offline
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Chicago, Illinois
I would recommend that you have another discussion with the contractor, asking him to specify why he recommends reinformcement. It need not be a confrontational meeting.

I see that you are posting from the Midwest. Here in Chicago, some young people were having a party in a third-floor apartment, and a large number of them moved out to the wooden back porch, which collapsed, killing 12 people and injuring many more. My recollection is that there was also a party on the floor below, so some of those killed were crushed by the weight falling from above.

It may be that your contractor is aware of that tragedy and of the many lawsuits that resulted, and wishes to protect himself from any accusation of negligence on his part on all work that he performs.

Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59488
11/05/05 07:49 PM
11/05/05 07:49 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,269
Midwest U.S.
ChickGrand Offline
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Midwest U.S.
Quote
Originally posted by mjg100:
...One of my other pet peeves is walking through a really nice home (in a parade of homes show) that used hollow core doors.
thumb smokin

Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59489
11/05/05 08:32 PM
11/05/05 08:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 64
Midwest
L
lambo Offline OP
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Midwest
NorthAmerican - I'm very familiar with the porch collapse that you're referring to. I think everyone in the Chicago area has heard the story. Two of the people involved were friends of friends, and I even have contacts with the building inspectors that last visited that site. It was publicized like few other domestic accidents and every builder is certainly nervous now because of it. I think you brought up a good point.

To everyone else - I've decided NOT to have the floors beefed up, but instead I'm going to ask the builder to offer, in writing, just why he's requesting and additional $3k and I want the specific calculations on which he's basing his opinions.

Common sense is prevailing in my mind and it's telling me that 700 or 800 lbs. is not a realistic concern. mjg100 has mentioned many great points about *over* building the floor, and I typically subscribe to that type of thinking, but in this specific case, with a 6'3" Baldwin, I'm not going to lose any sleep over having the *standard* floor. I'll even sing happy birthday from time to time.

A lot of great information and opinions here. Thanks to all.

Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59490
11/05/05 08:39 PM
11/05/05 08:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 64
Midwest
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lambo Offline OP
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Midwest
I should have added:

Yes, the floors are finished, but they are still exposed and easily accessible. This house is part of a development of 9 homes which are being built simultaneously, so I have to assume that the extra materials are very much available.

I don't yet know the dimensions or type of wood being used for the floor, but I can say that every other element of the house to which I've put a magnifying glass has passed my tests with flying colors. They're using very good materials and their techniques appear to be sound. I've mentioned some other things (insulation, types of doors, types of windows, types of decorative woods, etc.) to a few friends that know good from bad and they've all been excited about the materials and methods this builder is using.

I can only assume that the same goes for the materials used for the flooring, which eases my conscience even more.

I think they're truly covering their butts, possible for the tragedy in Chicago mentioned above which still sits in everyone's mind here, but their FEE is questionable.

Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59491
11/05/05 08:40 PM
11/05/05 08:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 64
Midwest
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lambo Offline OP
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Midwest
...

Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59492
11/06/05 09:13 AM
11/06/05 09:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,851
New Jersey
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Stevester Offline
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New Jersey
Please keep us posted. I am sure we would all like to hear how the contractor replies.


"The true character of a man can be determined by witnessing what he does when no one is watching".

anon
Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59493
11/06/05 07:22 PM
11/06/05 07:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,047
Minneapolis, Minnesota
tomasino Offline
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Minneapolis, Minnesota
Hi,

I have not read this entire thread, it's too long. But your first respondant was on point. The most you would need to do is double up the joists in the particular area, and a few hundred bucks is all that should cost.

It probably isn't necessary at all. Just one of those ideas that wouldn't hurt.

Tomasino


"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do so with all thy might." Ecclesiastes 9:10

Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59494
11/07/05 04:43 PM
11/07/05 04:43 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 377
Wisconsin
Glyptodont Offline
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Posts: 377
Wisconsin
I wonder if it would matter WHERE the piano is placed in the room.

Our grand is near an outside wall, slightly cocked. The nose is 4" from each of two corner walls, with the keyboard end about 15" from the wall.

Thus ours is located near where the joists meet the supporting wall.

If the same piano were 6' from any and all walls, it seems like it would be more likely to "bow" the floor joists.


the Glyptodont
Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59495
11/07/05 06:43 PM
11/07/05 06:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 218
upstate New York
treeman Offline
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upstate New York
I am having a 150+ year old farmhouse rebuilt. The process is a little more than half done (I think). When I bought my 760 lbs. CW 190, I went to my contractor and asked if the weight of the piano would be a problem. He looked at me like I had two heads, and replied that if the floor won't hold 760 pounds we're all in trouble.

It seems he had stacked ALL of the wood used for the floors, walls, and new windows in the corner where I indicated the piano would be. This wood weighed significantly more than a 6'4" grand piano. Interestingly, he made sure that the company installing the heat doesn't put any heating elements in that corner, and he convinced me to rip out my woodstove to help protect the piano.


scott
Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59496
11/07/05 08:10 PM
11/07/05 08:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,288
Cincinnati
mikhailoh Offline
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Cincinnati
I'm gonna post a poll to solve this one. Yeesh.


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
Re: Grand piano too much weight for floor? #59497
11/07/05 09:04 PM
11/07/05 09:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 314
Audubon, PA
mikewu99 Offline
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Audubon, PA
Current building codes require that a residential floor can support 200 lbs (maybe 250 lbs, I can't remember exactly) per square foot. Since the footprint of a piano is probably about 20 sq ft, it would have to weight 4000 lbs before you would even start to worry about the structure.

Of slightly more concern would be the subflooring, typically 3/4" plywood or OSB (oriented strand board). A concentrated weight (like a piano caster) might cause some dimpling and maybe eventually a slight sag in the subfloor (although my guess is that is unlikely, especially if you use caster cups)...

I would not worry about it at all...

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