Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Is Evolution dead?? Not if you've checked out the beauties playing pro piano today!

Joe,

I see your point on poor Gina Bachauer. Artistically however, I would take Backauer's Chopin Concerti recording over 95% of all other Chopin Concerti available on the market past or present. That is music, pure music. No make-up. No touch-up. No mannerism. That recording is an outstanding example of 'let the music speak for itself'...

Totally agree with you all on Grimaud. I've never seen her outside of pictures on her recordings, but her Brahms performances are sublime. I'll throw in a violinist for you. Lara St. John is very cute and plays a good Bach (you may have heard or seen the controversy surrounding the cover for her Bach CD).

As for myself, I have inherited the good looks of Alfred Brendel.

Just wanted to plug some of Helene Grimaud's earlier recordings on the Denon label. (Before she got the EMI contract and the hairdresser)

Her Brahms album (third sonata, Op. 118) is wonderful (I actually prefer that Op. 118 to the later one she did) and her Kreisleriana is #5 on my "Favorite Kreisleriana" list. (Kreisleriana is my favorite piece.)

For Vid,

Vid, you might want to check out Helene's unofficial website http://www.wdehaan.demon.nl/

It has several videos of her playing the Schumann and Rach #2 concerti as well as video clips of interviews. What a gal!! (pant, pant) Oh, and the music is sublime, too!

Andrew,
Thanks for "sticking up" for Gina....before I had a chance. Her Chopin Concerti are some of my favs in my library. BTW, I always thought she looked rather elegant sitting at the piano.

Friends :

While ogling (if that's what you do)the covers of some of the latest CDs/Videos, I think you have to have some sympathy for these talented young musicians who happen to be not only female but also attractive. What their agents, publicity managers (same thing?) and record companies subject them to in terms of "imaging" and "marketing" can sometimes amount to sexual harassment.

Maybe some of them enjoy it, but I am quite sure there are others among them who object to being marketed for their "flesh" almost as much as for their talent! This type of marketing is not limited to young women in the classical world, either. Look at what some record companies are doing to some of the younger (read: more attractive) male opera stars in particular: trying to make them look as seductive as possible. The thought being that if they can be made to look physically appealing - even sexually attractive, their albums will sell better.

Let's face it; there are those in the public that fall for this kind of advertising. That's why it works.

However, back to the original thought: Enlighten me if you will on my limited knowledge of Darwinism, but what does evolution have to do with all this, Joe?

Regards,

[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: BruceD ]

Actually, looks and evolution are closely connected - it's why male birds are more colorful, why they do those ridiculous dances, why baboons have pink butts, and why large breasted women are "desirable" (something to do with being seen as a good nurturing mother) - I am not making this up, haven't you seen the PBS series about it all? Its quite fascinating. Jodi

[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: jodi ]

I don't care if she's purple. If he or she can play then let 'em play.

I met Miles Davis once in person. My impression of the guy was that he was somewhere between strange and clinically neurotic. But who cares? When the guy puts his soul into his horn it speaks in a clear and passionate way. That's enough for me.

i love watching neurotic artists and bands, i went to a fishbone concert the other night and the singer is absolutely crazy, it made it ten times funner than it could have been. and the strokes played on (of all places) MTV from a live show in hollywood. man they're so wierd in a throwback to the sixties heroin and cigarettes kind of way that it's just fascinating to watch. i think different images wouldn't hurt the classical world at all. not these extremes of course, but if it's gonna make more people buy a cd because a babe is on the cover then by god let them hear some piano music!

BruceD,

Here's my take: bear in mind I'm no evolution expert. This is all pure conjecture but here's my theory. Never in the history of piano have we had so many beautiful and talented woman playing piano professionally. I've personally gone through every website listed on current Woman Pianists and the list of beauties is longer than a roll of toilet paper (extremely bad analogy). And listen to their audio and video clips. I mean these girls can really play!! So how come we didn't have all these beauties 50 years ago. Or 100. Take a look at some of the photos from the turn of the century. Not exactly the kind of looks and figures that make the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit edition, are they. So my point is, have women pianists evolved to a state of beauty that is truly breathtaking? Evolution shows that men and women have been getting consistently better looking over the eons. What are the factors that make them so gorgeous nowadays? That's my hypothetical question.

Gorgeous in your eyes. At this point in time. You take a time machine back and show your favorite photos to a young male, and he would probably think ugly. In fact, definitions of "beauty" are not even the same from culture to culture today. Tone down the testosterone, and lets talk music. Jodi

Sure, whatever sells. More power to 'em. Actually, I would rather like the idea of a classical musician selling a platinum record.

I could just see the scene: thousands of screaming teenyboppers mobbing, well, Seiji Ozawa. Only now he is sporting a new hair cut, a tatoo and an earring. (Plus he's had liposuction.) The throngs crowd around him to touch him or to tear a piece of his clothing. Or faint at the sight of him. Then he could come out with a new video that would be shown on MTV of Stravinsky's "The Rite of Spring" showing a close-up of him looking savage, primal and seductive. Classical stations would play this recording every hour for months while MTV conducts interviews with star-struck teenagers saying: "Ooohh, I just love Seji. He's like, wow, like he's the best." Meanwhile, young kids could collect trading cards of Ozawa for Yo-Yo Ma, Emanuel Ax and Leonard Slatkin.

Pretty silly, eh? Tough to immagine? But just think, for a person living in the 14th century it would have been unthinkable that musicians, lowly musicians--somewhere between a brigand and a cook in the medieval social heirarchy--would be considered idols and heroes 600 years hence. So, maybe the idea of a classical superstar isn't beyond the realm of immagination.

T2

t2,

actually the equivilant of all that for the 1800's is what happened to liszt and other famous performers of the day, like thalberg. women supposedly fought over liszt's cigar butts...

i meant this as a way to expose more people to classical music, not so much as a way to make more money (which isn't a bad thing).

Actually, the ones I feel sorry for are the equally talented musicians who because they are less marketable do not get those opportunities at all. If you widen the view (so to speak) to violinists and singers as well as pianists, there is no mistaking the phenomenon Joe describes. I think it reflects cultural rather than biological evolution, however. There has probably never been a larger pool of highly talented, classically trained musicians at any time, yet at the same time the market for their talents, particularly in the recording industry, is shrinking or static at best. When there is so much competition for so few opportunities, it's inevitable that those with more than only musical gifts are advantaged.

I do go to concerts when I can but since the vast majority of my listening to most of classical music is via CDs rather than via live concerts - isn't that true of most of us - it doesn't matter to me what s/he looks like if s/he makes beautiful music.

For female performers, isn't it also a question of cultural change, call it cultural evolution, if you will? One hundred years ago - or more - how many young women even considered embarking on a concert career compared to those who are having successful concert careers now? Yes, there were a few who did and were relatively successful at it, but surely they were considered exceptions to the "norm." As in so many professions, the role of women has changed considerably over the last century. The concept of what it is "acceptable" for women to do has vastly evolved. I think this is one of those areas.

Regards,

[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: BruceD ]

BruceD,

More and more DVDs of classical concerts or recitals are emerging, particularly in other parts of the world. I find it exceptionally rewarding and gratifying watching these DVDs and enjoying CD quality sound in your living room. To be able to watch the pianistic greats playing is really something. I just wish US market will catch on with this new trend. I like this new development...

Eldon,

I also prefer Gina's "Emperor" Concerto over many others. Hers is very high on my 'must have' list of recordings. Maybe it's due to the fact that she was a big lady her Brahms 2nd is another great recording. It may not be in the league of Richter's 1960 performance with Chicago Symphony under Leinsdorf. It is, nevertheless an outstanding and mercurial reading. I always think the lofty Brahms 2nd is a men's concerto. Hope I'm not opening a can of worms by saying this.

I suppose it depends what type of "evolution" you value the most. I'm really not of the opinion that society’s obsession with youth and physical beauty is a great sign of intellectual or cultural evolution. In fact it's an absolutely retrograde trend. I despair when beauty wins over talent.

Hey, I'm not usually this serious

[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: Diarmuid ]

Jodi:

1)I am not a colorfully-feathered male bird;
2)I don't do even "nice" or "normal" dances, let alone ridiculous ones;
3)while I may act, at times, like a baboon, I do not have a pink (what you said);
4)I see no general (i.e. evolutionary) trend to larger breasts in the modern women.

Perhaps I have not yet evolved!

Regards,