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Joined: Jul 2008
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Hello, everyone. I am making my first post on this forum. Just for a brief introduction: I currently am majoring in civil engineering at University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, and I love to play piano after orchestra rehearsal. (I play violin, too) I started taking piano lessons when I was three, by the way. My favorite piano pieces are by Chopin. Also, I bought an 113-year-old Knabe grand piano recently, and you can see many discussions about it in the piano forum. So this concludes my brief introduction. Anyway, I just saw RonaldSteinway's rather strange post, and I was wondering whether usually ordinary "westerners" are still puzzled by emerging classical "Asian" pianists. (rather strange distinction in this century, I think...) Please tell me your thoughts. Thank you.
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A couple of questions.
If this is your first post, and you are referencing a brand new thread by RonaldSteinway, why does your post count say 116? [I guess you mean at the Pianist Corner, but that wasn't clear]
Next, since you have read that thread, and perhaps read the predecessor thread that Sotto Voce cited, and you think that that thread is rather strange (I would agree), then I wonder why you would ask a question drawn from roughly the same broad area?
Just what is an 'ordinary' westerner? Who is it that is puzzled? I'm not sure I see a question. I do see a stirring of the pot.
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My post count is 116 because of my Knabe discussions on the piano forum (I wanted to say that this is my first post on "Pianist Corner" forum)... I actually am Korean myself, so I was very curious as to why anyone (like RonaldSteinway) would pose such a question in this forum. I am not trying to stir a pot. Just a little offended...
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Having attended the Mannes Piano Festival for almost 10 years it's obvious that at least at this summer piano institute more than 50%(and probably a lot more)of the students are Asian.
I don't know about the % of Asians at US conservatories but my guess is it's very high. It would be interesting to know the % of Asians at conservtories in 1970,1980,1990,2000 and 2008. Maybe some PW members who have been there can give an guestimate. My guess is it has increased very dramatically.
I didn't read the post you referred to after it disintegrated into vitriolic arguing. But to answer your question I would say that Americans who are familiar with today's classical piano scene are not puzzled the emergence of so many Asian pianists.
Since, as you probably realize, classical music is not so popular in the US there are other Westerners that couldn't tell the difference between Bach and Bartok. Perhaps those people would be more puzzled.
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Thank you for your PM, Piano*Dad, (and thank you for your comments, Pianoloverus) By reading RonaldSteinway's comments, I thought that some people were obviously very biased in this forum (rather like in Youtube), and so I had to ask this rather awkward question. Not all Asians have an attitude like RonaldSteinway, you know... (If he was actually Korean, then I would be very, very ashamed)
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For whatever reason, Asian women (most of whom seem to be a disproportionately high number of students of Korean heritage) make up the overwhelming majority of the Piano students of the Music department at my local university.
At past piano competitions I have attended, again, the bulk of the competitors seems to be mostly young Asian women, and again, most of them seem to be of Korean descent.
Is there something particular about Asian cultures (particulary the Korean one) that values studying piano or pursuing a career in classical music?
She was with me even in my grave When the last of my friends turned away, And she sang like the first storm heaven gave. Or as if flowers were having their say.
- Anna Akhmatova, "Music"(Dedicated to Dmitri Shostakovich)
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Hmm... Let me think. I suppose Korea's (or Asia's) history is behind today's values. In the late 19th century Korea (or in Asia in general), being "westernized" would mean almost equivalent to being "modernized." Learning to play on pianos originally from "modern and progressive" Europe, I think, was thus valued and revered. Only the richest, elite families (or royalties) could own such an imported foreign instrument back then, so probably pianos quickly became a mysterious symbol of uttermost respect and status. I guess that this kind of attitude deeply penetrated through Korean's (or Asian's) general culture. Don't quote me, for I am just speculating!
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Hi Avantgardenabi, It's nice to see you in the Pianist Corner at last. Welcome! You may have noticed the link I provided (in the thread you mention) back to an earlier discussion called Apparently, Asians should quit playing piano . While I think the answer to the question you pose in the subject line here is "No," the statistical overrepresentation of Asians in classical piano (in the U.S., anyway) obviously does raise a few eyebrows and push a few buttons. You shouldn't think, though, that the existence of two discussion threads about the subject within a short period of time means it's the focus of frequent attention here. Thanks for sharing a little bit about yourself, and I look forward to your continued participation here. There's always room for more Chopinophiles! Steven
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Avant, I can't speak for anyone other than myself. I'm the all American mutt as regards my "western" provenance. There were no Asians when I was in undergrad in the mid 70's. There were two in my studio in grad school, both Chinese and very capable. I didn't give it a thought. They were both friends.
As to why there are so many in the arts? The culture values it, and that's a good thing. Unfortunately, they didn't get the memo. There is no way that the present quantity of students can be accomodated in the workforce. This is likely why so many "westerners" bailed on music school as an option. You made the right decision as regards engineering. That is my second love, and if we hadn't cleverly synchronized the birth of our first child with graduation, I likely would have gone back to school for an engineering degree myself. My dad was an M.E., and the apple didn't fall far from the tree. I always recommend that my advanced students pursue a dual degree, or a minor in music. You've got to pay the bills, and that is the first priority.
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Avant-
Puzzled is a strange characterization for sure.
I'm very new to PW and very very recently "re-interested" in the world of piano (another story), but I'm going to the first piano concert I've been to in the last 25 years next month ... Lang Lang in San Francisco and it has nothing to do with his ethnicity but his wild playing !!!
Tom O'Connell
Tom O'Connell
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I'm a fellow UIUC student- I may even have met you. Were you part of the Summer Piano Institute this past summer?
Daniel
Amateur Pianist, Scriabin Enthusiast, and Octave Demon
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why do we have to bring race into music and esp. piano ??? It's just very sad.
Let's just look at it as any human playing piano and enjoy the music.
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Strange as it may seem, in many rural areas of the US, Asian *people* are a curiosity...whether they play the piano or not.
Now, I'm not saying they are a 'poke them with a stick' curiosity or a 'put them in a glass box and stare at them' curiousity...but they would probably be a 'wow, I've never seen an Asian person in person before' curiosity. And it's not just Asian people, but many ethnicities that this would be true for.
Except in large urban areas where it is commonplace to see people from many ethnic groups interacting, we are still a long way from the day where we won't even notice a person's ethnic background.
Adult Amateur Pianist
My only domestic quality is that I live in a house.
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^^^ i live in a pretty rural area and have never experienced that kind of ignorance... however i'm sure there are some very rural places (population less than 500) where this may be true.
"Nothing is more intolerable than to have to admit to yourself your own errors."
~Ludwig van Beethoven~
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Prodigal, I don't know that I can concur with your assessment. I live in a relatively small town, and yet there are likely a half dozen Chinese restaurants within 5 miles of me. Tomball Texas is not a large urban area.
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To Fleeing Visions: No, I was not in the Summer Piano Institute. I guess we can actually meet each other.
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Originally posted by John Pels: Prodigal, I don't know that I can concur with your assessment. I live in a relatively small town, and yet there are likely a half dozen Chinese restaurants within 5 miles of me. Tomball Texas is not a large urban area. Maybe there's more than one Tomball in Texas. The Tomball I'm thinking of is actually included within the Houston metropolitan statistical area, and I have a hunch that a town within spitting distance of one of the biggest cities in the US is not what ProdigalPianist had in mind when speaking of "rural".
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The situation with the number of pianists of asian extraction is the same or similar here in the UK. Frankly, I try to judge all playing on its merits, and not the race of the pianist, as I'm sure any rational person does.
My reality is that because I am so picky about the pianists I like, I have no room for further excluding them *because of how they look!* Kind of crazy actually.
I liken this to the russian chess phenomenon of the 20th century -- communist governments seem to have a vested interest in demonstrating the effectiveness of their system through fostering artists.
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Originally posted by wr: Originally posted by John Pels: [b] Prodigal, I don't know that I can concur with your assessment. I live in a relatively small town, and yet there are likely a half dozen Chinese restaurants within 5 miles of me. Tomball Texas is not a large urban area. Maybe there's more than one Tomball in Texas. The Tomball I'm thinking of is actually included within the Houston metropolitan statistical area, and I have a hunch that a town within spitting distance of one of the biggest cities in the US is not what ProdigalPianist had in mind when speaking of "rural". [/b]I hesitate to make an off-topic observation that could result in another thread disappearing into the ether, but I agree that's not "rural" in the sense of off the beaten path. Anyone who has driven cross-country on secondary roads and who does not have a WASP-ish appearance knows about what's at best a xenophobic vibe of scrutiny. Those who look very different (think gay couples, Black people with dreadlocks, interracial families) could be in physical danger, too. Steven
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Originally posted by sotto voce: Anyone who has driven cross-country on secondary roads and who does not have a WASP-ish appearance knows about what's at best a xenophobic vibe of scrutiny. Those who look very different [...]could be in physical danger, too. OT, sorry, but several years ago a friend and I drove around some of the more remote areas of Scotland. (Where one shares the narrow roads with sheep.) Xenophobia was alive and well if not on the grand and dangerous scale encountered in the US.
Jason
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