Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Disagreement with my teacher about the Chopin etudes

She says they are too technically demanding and at this point I'm not ready to undertake the Black Key Etude and that I will develop unnecessary stress in my hands.
This is clearly not true. The Chopin etudes are designed to be developmental exercises in their own right. Thus if I take them at a near-comfortable pace, my dexterity will improve such that I'll be able to handle them at higher tempos.

You going to change teachers?

You first posted about your interest in this piece several months back.

Does your teacher know you've been working on it on your own?

Was her opinion based on hearing you play some of it, or on her experience teaching you other pieces, or on some other factors?

Steven

I haven't gone past the first line as far as working on it on my own. I don't know what her opinion is based on. She really hasn't explained the factors. I had a different teacher a few months ago (off-campus) and she said I the Etudes were within my ability. I suppose she meant that if I practiced them I could eventually get them up to speed.

The etudes are not all at the same level of difficulty. They range from advanced to impossible. Perhaps this teacher was referring to the more accessible ones like op.10 #3, op.10 #12, and op.25 #1. The Black Key is certainly one of the more challenging.

I thought Op. 10 No. 5 was one of the more "medium" difficulty etudes?

Matt

Has she seen you exhibit any signs of pain, tension, or stress while playing passages that place your hands in the same similar physical plane and motions as that etude?
Perhaps it's due to a technical issue that hasn't been adequately addressed as of yet by your teacher.
The Chopin etudes can only be played masterfully in a state of complete relaxation, the enitre body of the pianist executing ballet-like, synchronous movements, each etude requiring a different ballet of body synchronisitym and the correct amalgam of minimum motion for their effortless play.
Perhaps she feels soemthing must be addressed before beginning on these with you.

The Black Key Etude is my dream piece!

"What happens to a dream deferred?

Does it dry up
like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run? "

Only you can tell, but I would not advice you to challenge your teacher on this. Ask her what she thinks you need to do to prepare to tackle this piece. Having a dream piece in the not too distant future should keep you motivated.

I don't tell my students they can't play something or they're not ready. When I was taking lessons, that would have made me want to learn it even more just to prove my teacher wrong!!

In fact, my sister played Gershwin's 3rd prelude in high school, and I loved it so much, I wanted to learn it, but I was only 11 years old and hadn't even taken lessons but a few years. I actually did a pretty good job of figuring out most of it. I couldn't really nail it, though. But my love of the piece and determination later paid off when I played it in high school and it helped me win scholarship money!!

I'm not saying you're teacher is incorrect, I'm just saying I don't tell students they can't play something, even if I may THINK it. If they really aren't able to pull it off, they'll realize it and I'll just think "I told you so!" ha ha . . .

It is true that the Chopin études are tools to aid in technical development; however, they are tools best utilized by an advanced student. In my experience, the "Black Key" étude is one of the more challenging of the set.

That said, approaching the études as a mere technician is doing them a great injustice. I don't have a clue as to your technical or musical abilities, but I am inclined to agree with your teacher. Your teacher has your best interests at heart. Upon looking back at my own instruction, if I had a dime for every time I yearned to play something beyond my abilities at the time I'd be retired.

WI,

I had the mistaken impression that you had worked up a little more of the piece on your own than you now say. Even though we don't know the basis for your teacher's opinion, why—based on your limited experience with it to date—do you believe she is wrong? Have you practiced the first line in a relaxed manner and without discomfort? If you feel you've been successful with it and benefited, is there any reason that you haven't attempt to go beyond that short sample?

I agree with you that the Chopin etudes are tools for building technique, but I also agree with other posters who have acknowledged that they should be approached with both a certain degree of technical preparedness and the ability to engage the entire upper body with no unnecessary tension.

BTW, FWIW, I don't agree with a blanket generalization that "they" are too technically demanding, given that the difficulties vary greatly in type and degree. I wouldn't place the "Black Key" in the hardest group, but it might not be the best place for you to start, either. Perhaps one of a handful of other choices among the 27—even though not your dream piece—might be more suitable?

Steven

WI -

In my humble opinion - and without knowing anything about your true abilities........if you can't read through the entire etude slowly from beginning to end - then you probably aren't ready to tackle it - dream piece or not.

What other repertoire are you working on? What pieces do you currently play well?

You may be interested to know that Chopin himself did not teach his etudes except to a few of his most advanced students. He had students master various etudes by Clementi, Moscheles, etc. first (and some of those are quite difficult) before he would work with his pupils on his own etudes. If they got to his at all; most didn't.

You have to trust your teacher. If you don't, then why are you taking lessons from her.

A better approach - instead of ignoring what she says, and working on the piece - would be to ask her what pieces would be good stepping stones the that etude - or any of the others.

Just have to chime in and say... I agree!

Just as a matter of curiosity - are you sure your teacher is capable of tackling that piece herself? I had three piano teachers growing up. Two of them could never have approached a Chopin etude. The third one, maybe.

I agree.

Daniel

I've read a number of opinions that if one cannot read through an entire piece slowly, it's a sign that it's too hard to learn. I'm not sure precisely what that means (e.g., How slowly? HS or HT? "Correct" fingering or anything goes?), but I disagree in principle.

In my experience, any number of technical elements can impede or prevent a casual read-through even if learning and playing them is within one's grasp. They're not exclusively in the realm of truly advanced repertoire, either. I wonder how many students are able slowly to read through, say, Rachmaninoff's Prelude 3/2 with its dense chords laden with accidentals and multi-staff notation, or Liszt's Liebestraum No. 3 with its two cadenzas, before studying them in earnest.

Chopin's 10/3 comes to mind, too; it's frequently suggested as a "starter" etude, but could the experience of attempting to read through any of the middle section with its chromaticism and double-notes be found meaningful? The same observation applies to 25/7 with its extended and elaborate roulades in the left hand. Even with more advanced works—like 10/4 or 25/6, for example—it's often the case that they are at least as daunting to read prima vista as ultimately to play.
I'm very glad you mentioned this, Frycek. It was one of my first thoughts, too.

Steven

This is a very worthy topic and what has been said here really contributes to anyone being better able to resolve an obstacle like this!

There are many considerations mentioned here, any of which may be part of the solution....copious explanations and things to consider.

This is the first topic I've read this morning and it thrilled me to see such intelligence and helpfulness at work.

I want to continue reading the development of this as time goes on.

One has to ask oneself: "Are you part of the problem or part of the solution?"

Even a small change in thinking and attitude can help, but keeping the same perspectice is going to keep the impotency alive.

There are many things to consider to date in this topic - a real learning opportunity exists here in learning about yourself.

I liked the "maturity" of the posts!

Betty