Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
77 registered members (7uturu, Beakybird, Animisha, Cheshire Chris, Alex C, 19 invisible), 1,131 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58846
05/09/08 04:07 AM
05/09/08 04:07 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,886
San Francisco
whippen boy Offline
3000 Post Club Member
whippen boy  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,886
San Francisco
Rafael,

Just a note to say 'I hear you' wink about tinnitis - I've had it for a number of years myself, and it is no fun.

Seems we have at least a couple good things in common, in addition to this not-so-good thing. Hey, maybe we are neighbors!

Keep us posted.


M&H "A" at home
Bösendorfer Imperial
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58847
05/09/08 04:49 AM
05/09/08 04:49 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 790
Auckland, New Zealand
T
Ted2 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Ted2  Offline
500 Post Club Member
T

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 790
Auckland, New Zealand
I started a poll on another piano forum and was astonished to find 36% of respondents, including me, had tinnitus in various forms ! Bear in mind also that the overwhelming majority of posters there are young. From talking to people I have no reason to suppose the result would be any different for the general population. It is very common. It is also very complicated and not fully understood.

Tinnitus poll


"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley
Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58848
05/09/08 11:07 AM
05/09/08 11:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 199
Garden State, USA
Mechanical Doll Offline
Full Member
Mechanical Doll  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 199
Garden State, USA
Quote
Originally posted by Ted2:
I started a poll on another piano forum and was astonished to find 36% of respondents, including me, had tinnitus in various forms...
eek This is seriously alarming to me. When I was small they would constantly give commercials warning about tinnitus. {Today I never see anything of the sort - strange considering that people are a lot more attached to their music now (via ipods and other portables), and the standard headphones are of the in-ear variety.} I do occasionally crank up the volume, but that damn commercial - which was pretty much just solid ringing for 30 seconds - is always in the back of my mind, so I try not to do it too much or too often.

36% though... that's A LOT. I wonder how accurate it is...


Music produces a kind of pleasure which human nature cannot do without. ~Confucius

Music is moonlight in the gloomy night of life. ~Jean Paul Richter
Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58849
05/09/08 11:29 AM
05/09/08 11:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,114
El Cajon, California
S
Steve Ramirez Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Steve Ramirez  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,114
El Cajon, California
Here is a reprint of a story I found in the Wall Street Journal a few weeks ago:

http://www.ata.org/news_publications/pdf/wsj_mar2008.pdf

Yes, it's important to protect your ears, and if I had done a better job of it in the past maybe I wouldn't have tinnitus now. But focusing your attention on the neurological artifacts of hearing damage might actually make it worse. This has been my experience. Training your brain to just ignore the damn noise is an interesting idea.

Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58850
05/09/08 11:57 PM
05/09/08 11:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,386
Maine, U.S.
R
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member
RachFan  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,386
Maine, U.S.
I'm 63 and have had tinnitus for many years. The way I would describe the noise in my ears is that it's virtually identical to the sound of cicadas. Cicadas are those unseen insects up in the high branches of trees that make that buzzing siren sound on hot summer days. In some regions of the country, people call them locusts, although they're a different insect entirely.

At one time it was only in my left ear, but over the last few years the right ear also has developed the buzz as well. I do have some mild hearing loss, particularly in group settings with a lot of ambient noise, such as a restaurant, where I find myself saying "what?" a lot to people sitting next to or right across from me.

I play a powerful Baldwin Model L (6'3") parlor grand. Our living room, where it is situated, has wall-to-wall carpeting, a stuffed/upholstered living room set, and window treatments which help. My practice time is limited to sessions of about 2 hours three or four times a week. During practicing, I generally keep the lid down, or if I want a less muffled sound, I'll often use the singer stick. The only times I put the lid fully up is to perform a piece following practice, or to record it for posting. I haven't used musicians' ear plugs, as I was unaware of them. But I'll probably check into them now.

Today the tuner was here. I have fairly new Ronsen Wurzen hammers (which were very consistent right out of the box and required only very minor sanding and voicing prior to installation). After today's tuning, he used a brass brush on the hammer tops, cleaning out the metallic residue from the groves and lightly softening the hammer tops. It's considered the most conservative type of voicing before it becomes necessary to resort to needling the felt. The piano has a rich vibrancy, so we'd like to avoid real voicing until the sound actually becomes too bright. Anyway, after the brushing, what a difference! The sound is mellower and warmer now, yet still exciting, and easier on my ears.

Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58851
05/10/08 06:43 AM
05/10/08 06:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 522
Bucuresti, Romania
R
ROMagister Offline
500 Post Club Member
ROMagister  Offline
500 Post Club Member
R

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 522
Bucuresti, Romania
I'm 33 and have really sensitive hearing at low loudness at many frequencies, but don't like anything too loud (like a typical disco). Still like much pipe organs.
My sound-interpreting difficulties are more with separating several people talking superposed (like at a party - ugh :-( ), and a bit in 'hearing' lyrics in songs. They said this is commonly associated with Asperger's. Most music I really like and discern well, at low volumes.

Had almost a year of tinnitus after being too close to some loud bangs (cannons of Austerlitz reenactment) - still enjoyed the fun at the time...

The old upright I practiced on as a kid was too loud/'undynamic' (practically no 'piano') - so I enjoy much better the keyboard with a volume slider ;-)

Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58852
05/10/08 11:12 AM
05/10/08 11:12 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 158
brenda100 Offline
Full Member
brenda100  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 158
Rachfan,
Cicadas! That's exactly how to describe mine, too. And the restaurant, party, noisy room scenario is also what I experience.

To the other poster who suggested just ignoring it, yes, that's my approach to it for now. Perhaps it's easier for me to do that since I've had it for 40 years (age 7 to 47). If someone has a very new case of it, I can imagine it would be very difficult to ignore.

Hubby didn't want a rug under the new MHBB coming in a couple months, but I have him talked into using a rug. I will have velvet drapes at the windows to absorb sound. The house has 9.5 foot ceilings, and is very open from room to room to allow the sound to flow instead of just bouncing around within one room. There will be a couple upholstered chairs in the room and leather furniture in the very next room (six foot wide pocket door opening between the rooms).

We are preparing the room for new wallpaper before the BB arrives, and we have looked at some "string paper" that has actual strings like fabric on the surface. It looks like fabric on the walls. Perhaps that would also act as a sound absorber to a certain extent?

Other ideas for absorbing sound are appreciated!

Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58853
05/10/08 02:51 PM
05/10/08 02:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
San Francisco
F
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member
FogVilleLad  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
F

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
San Francisco
For sound absorption, think "soft" and "irregular." That wallpaper should qualify, as would bookcases. There shouldn't be any need to sacrifice aesthetics for absorption. Acoustic panels, sometimes called "traps," are very effective when placed in corners. I'm mentioning this as an example of not needing, for example, to choose wallpaper that is not pleasing to your eyes.

Re the rug, an attractive one could enhance the room's appearance. Depending on need, a piece of foam cut smaller than the rug could be placed underneath it.

When in doubt, wait and see.

Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58854
05/10/08 04:11 PM
05/10/08 04:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,386
Maine, U.S.
R
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member
RachFan  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,386
Maine, U.S.
Hi brenda,

Yeah, cicadas is the sound all right. Here's the good news: If in the depths of a brutal and harsh Maine winter I simply close my eyes, it sounds like summertime ha-ha! One thing I'm grateful for is that at least the tinnitus doesn't disturb my sleep at night. I've read that if that happens, they having sound "masking" devices that help. Hopefully, my case won't come to that.

That wallpaper you describe should definitely help, as it should be more absorbing than reflecting. I think lampshades, in addition to carpeting, furniture and window treatments like the velvet curtain you mention, can also absorb sound. Our living room opens into the dining room, foyer and hallway, and family room. So that "open architecture" design definitely helps with dispersing the sound, especially where we have standard eight foot ceilings.

Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58855
05/10/08 04:13 PM
05/10/08 04:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,386
Maine, U.S.
R
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member
RachFan  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,386
Maine, U.S.
Double post eliminated.

Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58856
05/10/08 08:02 PM
05/10/08 08:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 158
brenda100 Offline
Full Member
brenda100  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 158
FogVilleLad,
It seems I have to fess up to you on a regular basis lately, so here's comes another one.

I am a hooker.

Let's be more specific.

I am a rug hooker.

I do the traditional form of rug hooking using strips of wool fabric pulled up as loops through either a linen or burlap backing.

So our rug under the future M&H BB may be a handmade rug from yours truly. I try to do nice work with my rugs, and even make my own designs. So I have to admit it strokes my ego to place one of my beauties under the BB. Luckily, Hubby loves my rugs, too, and thinks it's a great idea.

Some of my rugs are the type to hang on the wall similar to a tapestry. That would work well to mitigate any sound issues and serve as artwork, too. Hubby has already requested I put one of my rugs on the wall.

He's such a brownnoser! wink

Ahhh ..... combining two loves, hooking and piano, in one setting.

It don't get no better than that!
laugh

Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58857
05/10/08 09:30 PM
05/10/08 09:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
San Francisco
F
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member
FogVilleLad  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
F

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
San Francisco
I was going to suggest getting just that type of rug, but figured that you'd have your own ideas re decorating, so just said "rug." A looped cord will definitely take the edge off that beast;-)

You're absolutely right re the wall hangings.

Anything soft that breaks up/diffuses sound waves is effective.

No need to rush into anything - tho I'm pretty sure that you'll want that rug under - this piano is one whose sound you really like. It's just a matter of constructing a harmonious relationship between it and the room(s) where the sound is likely to be heard.

Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58858
05/10/08 09:49 PM
05/10/08 09:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 158
brenda100 Offline
Full Member
brenda100  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 158
FogVilleLad,
BTW - You have my permission to tell people you have been corresponding with a hooker.

Life needs both music and color to make it fun.

Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58859
05/10/08 10:04 PM
05/10/08 10:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,522
Portland, Or.
G
gabytu Offline
1000 Post Club Member
gabytu  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,522
Portland, Or.
I have had tinnitus for the past 10 years. However, it varies. Sometimes I don't have it all all, and can hear perfectly. Sometimes it is very mild, and I barely notice it. Other times it is so bad that it interferes with my hearing. Doctor says a hearing aid will not help.
I have noticed that it is worse when I have eaten salty food or any food that has MSG in it. When eating in Asian restaurants, I always call ahead to find out if they use MSG.
Mentioned this to the doctor, and he said that it is possible that certain foods can aggravate it, but he offered no further comment. Gaby tu

Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58860
05/10/08 10:06 PM
05/10/08 10:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,522
Portland, Or.
G
gabytu Offline
1000 Post Club Member
gabytu  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,522
Portland, Or.
I have had tinnitus for the past 10 years. However, it varies. Sometimes I don't have it all all, and can hear perfectly. Sometimes it is very mild, and I barely notice it. Other times it is so bad that it interferes with my hearing. Doctor says a hearing aid will not help.
I have noticed that it is worse when I have eaten salty food or any food that has MSG in it. When eating in Asian restaurants, I always call ahead to find out if they use MSG.
Mentioned this to the doctor, and he said that it is possible that certain foods can aggravate it, but he offered no further comment. Gaby tu

Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58861
05/12/08 10:55 AM
05/12/08 10:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 59
R
rickms63 Offline
Full Member
rickms63  Offline
Full Member
R

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 59
This is really a great thread. I do wish there was really a way to get young kids to comprehend the danger they are placing themselves in with portable players and in general listening to music at loud volumes. Having car stereos that you can hear miles aways appears to be the in thing. The younger generation is going to keep audiologists very very busy.

Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58862
05/13/08 08:32 AM
05/13/08 08:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 285
Northeast USA
N
NoctuGranes Offline
Full Member
NoctuGranes  Offline
Full Member
N

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 285
Northeast USA
And playing in bands. Just last night my guitar player said: "we weren't too loud tonight. I didn't even put in my ear plugs. My ears are only ringing a little". My ears always ring a little and he's apparently wrecking his to catch up. ??

With 'real drums' any band has to play a little too loud just to find some balance. And you practice for hours.

I've never been more comfy and happy since I invested in "musician's ear plugs" with a pair each of 9 and 15dB attenuators. (I'm not affiliated with them in any way.) The older you (we?, I?) get the more one realizes how fragile we are: especially our hearing.


-Nocty
Not in the piano business.
1906 Baldwin C rebuilt 2008
Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58863
05/18/08 12:34 AM
05/18/08 12:34 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,386
Maine, U.S.
R
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member
RachFan  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,386
Maine, U.S.
I had posted comments earlier in this thread about my tinnitus. Last Thursday I was doing a new recording of Bortkiewicz's Prelude, Op. 33, No. 6 in C#m on my Baldwin Model L grand. The piece has a thick texture due to accompaniment in both hands, so it demands careful voicing, voice leading and layering of sound. It also has a very bombastic climax. I tend to be a perfectionist, so did several retakes. Afterward I put on earphones and listened to the out-takes eliminating those that were not as good as others, and then did another round of elimination of the three still standing to choose the best. Still, I wasn't satisfied due to a rhythm that wasn't played quite right. I had noticed during the listening process that my recording level had been set too high, so turned down the playback volume. Between doing retakes and listening to out-takes, I probably spent a couple of hours on the project.

On Friday morning I noticed that the acuity of hearing in my right ear seemed noticeably reduced. Then I did some quick "tests". I pulled up a recording and listened with the left earphone only; then listened with the right only. The right channel was barely audible! Then I noticed that I could hear the computer tower's hard drive noises and the cooling fan's air rush. But covering the left ear and listening with just the right, I could hear only the highest pitched drive noises, but the fan was impossible to detect. Then I picked up the phone. The dial tone was a well rounded musical tone in the left ear, but it sounded like a distant, narrow, unpleasant buzzer in the right ear. Overall, it seemed that the right ear's hearing capacity was about 10% of the left ear's, plus its perception of low frequencies is poor! It's not clear to me whether this is acute hearing loss, or a gradual, insidious loss that that became suddenly evident during that exacerbating recording session.

I've read today that sometimes following exposure to loud noise or music, there can be a temporary drop in hearing capability which can rectify itself in a few days or up to two weeks. Unfortunately, the physiological causes are very poorly understood by otolaryngologists and the theories are still being debated.

I immediately ordered the musician's ear plugs from Etymonic Research as a precaution for the future. I probably should have been using them for decades. By next week if it hasn't started to clear up, I'll have to see the doctor and get a referral to an otolaryngologist and maybe an audiologist for testing.

This really demonstrates the potential dangers of sound from powerful grand pianos as well as from headphones.

Piano has been a lifelong passion for me, and I shudder to think that my life might be changing in that respect. It's worrisome. Pianists really need to be aware and to protect their hearing now to avoid a situation such as what I'm experiencing. And for anyone who already has tinnitus, it might be even more urgent.

Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58864
05/18/08 01:00 AM
05/18/08 01:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,645
An Indiana University
U S A P T Offline
1000 Post Club Member
U S A P T  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,645
An Indiana University
I've posted this before and I'll post it again.

Last year about this time many of you know that I was loaned a Steinway grand to prepare for my re-entry into school after 20-plus years out.

I worked all summer and within a month of acquiring the piano my ears started ringing. I gave up salt, MSG, started taking special vitamins, don't crack the windows when I drive, and all the usual crazy-making things that tinnitus sufferers do.

But the piano -- especially notes an octave or so above middle "C" make it scream. It's awful sometimes. I believe that it's from all those years of trucking, but the piano brought it to a frequency I can hear and now I'm doing what other people do to lower the severity and duration.

Through the last two semesters, especially around juries, the ringing affected my ability to hear people talk. Other problems arose too -- like plugging and stuff. Just a generally more sensitive ear.

In the fall, I am sad to say that I will be dropping the piano as my primary instrument. Although I earned "A's" in all piano-related courses, I can't allow my hearing to be permanently damaged from the many hours of daily practice required.

As other people said, it comes and goes, but now I know that if I eat salty foods or have a strong cup of coffee I know that the ringing will soon follow. And low-dose aspirin? Forget it!!!

So I switched to pipe organ, which I also adore. As long as I keep the fife or piccolo or 1' stops off, I'm okay!!!


All's well that ends well.


Full-Time Music/Entrepreneurship Major: (Why not compose music AND businesses?)
Former Piano Industry Professional
************
Steinway M
Roland Atelier AT90R
************
All Posts are Snarky Unless Otherwise Noted
************
Re: Tinnitus and Piano #58865
05/18/08 01:16 AM
05/18/08 01:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 522
Bucuresti, Romania
R
ROMagister Offline
500 Post Club Member
ROMagister  Offline
500 Post Club Member
R

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 522
Bucuresti, Romania
USAPT: Watch out if your organ has a "Mixture IV" or "Scharf" ! I was surprised how shrill it sounded even on a small organ. It's supposed to be the "crown" for other sounds, not the main component.

Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Shop Our Online Store!
Shop Our Store Online
Shop PianoSupplies.com

Did you know Piano World has an online store, and that it's loaded with goodies pianists and music lovers want?
Check it out and place your order.

Special Purchase!
Keyboard and Roses Piano Bench Cushion Keyboard & Roses 14"x30" piano bench cushions Regularly sold for $79 to $100, now only $39. (while supplies last)

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Piano marvel vs playground sessions?
by chongjasmine. 03/26/19 05:50 AM
Lifting the CA98
by iLogic. 03/26/19 02:58 AM
How much is this piano worth
by humble_pianist. 03/25/19 05:49 PM
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics191,131
Posts2,810,925
Members92,879
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2