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#587855 - 12/22/06 12:21 AM its in chopin too  
Joined: Dec 2005
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tomt6113 Offline
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tomt6113  Offline
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new york
i know im beating this math in music thing to death, but i figured that this was definitely worth a new post. i posted this in the bartok /golden ratio thing too, but figured since this is chopin id make a new post about it for organizational purposes. but anyway i read that the golden ratio is in music even when the composer was not trying to include it. i also read that some of chopins music contains it. so just for fun i took the amoutn of measures in etude 10/1 (78) divided it by 1.618 and got roughly 48 (48.2....) went to measure 48. and sure enough in this measure the "theme" returns in its original key.


im not really in a creative mood
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#587856 - 12/22/06 01:08 AM Re: its in chopin too  
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Arjen Offline
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Anyone who knows anything about statistics can tell you any number will show up in Chopin's work if you look for it.

#587857 - 12/22/06 01:34 AM Re: its in chopin too  
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(-1)^.5

:t:


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#587858 - 12/22/06 01:54 AM Re: its in chopin too  
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pianojerome Offline
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Freder(-1)<sup>.5</sup>c Chop(-1)<sup>.5</sup>n?


Sam
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#587859 - 12/22/06 10:59 AM Re: its in chopin too  
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JohnEB Offline
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I read that if you convert the notes in Nocturne 9 nr 2 to letters, bar 15 spells out 'George Sand a des pieds qui puent' (George Sands has stinky feet).

Don't tell Dan Brown or he'll write a book about it.


John
#587860 - 12/22/06 12:16 PM Re: its in chopin too  
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playliszt Offline
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To tomt6113 :

Now Tom... if you want to convince yourself and others that this isn't a fluke, you need to do it for at least all of Opus 10 & maybe Opus 25. If the results beat a random occurrence of this event you may have something scientifically verifiable. (I'm not sure exactly what yet but a quantum physicist should be able to do something with it)

Who knows, maybe this G.Ratio is coded somehow into our DNA.

Have fun!

#587861 - 12/22/06 12:58 PM Re: its in chopin too  
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Ben Johnson Offline
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Ben Johnson  Offline
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Chicago
Quote
Originally posted by JohnEB:
I read that if you convert the notes in Nocturne 9 nr 2 to letters, bar 15 spells out 'George Sand a des pieds qui puent' (George Sands has stinky feet).

Don't tell Dan Brown or he'll write a book about it.
How is it converted to letters? I don't recall a "Q" or "T" note on my keyboard. confused

#587862 - 12/22/06 01:27 PM Re: its in chopin too  
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ted.stanion Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by playliszt:
To tomt6113 :

Who knows, maybe this G.Ratio is coded somehow into our DNA.

Have fun!
I remember reading that if many people are asked to draw a rectangle, the ratio of the average rectangle's sides approaches the Golden Ratio. That is pretty neat considering that the G.R. is in some sense the most irrational number possible.

#587863 - 12/22/06 01:48 PM Re: its in chopin too  
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tomt6113 Offline
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i dont think chopin consciously did it. the point is the golden sprial/ratio/section shows up a lot in nature and the rectangle mentioned is considered to be "the most pleasing rectangle to look at". the movie "pi" that was mentioned has a lot to do the the golden spiral being at the root of everything and intrinsic to humans. and i was just showing one instance in music where the glden ratio exists and it doesnt seem to be contrived as it fits almost perfectly. but i do plan on looking at some of chopins other works to see what appens. who knows where the quest will lead me.


im not really in a creative mood
#587864 - 12/22/06 02:05 PM Re: its in chopin too  
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Ben Johnson Offline
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Quote
who knows where the quest will lead me. [/QB]
An electric drill to the temple, maybe? wink

#587865 - 12/22/06 02:42 PM Re: its in chopin too  
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tomt6113 Offline
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An electric drill to the temple, maybe?

hahaha. pi is one of my favorite movies of all time. when i first read about the golden ratio in music i thought "oh man, this is just like that movie." unfortunately im not a mathematical genius.


im not really in a creative mood
#587866 - 12/22/06 02:58 PM Re: its in chopin too  
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Xav Offline
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there are some times in which id love to be a mathematical genious


xav...keylover
#587867 - 12/23/06 08:06 PM Re: its in chopin too  
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tomt6113 Offline
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tomt6113  Offline
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there are 48 measures in the 2nd etude. haha. i know that this is probably a fluke. but its a big coincidence.


im not really in a creative mood
#587868 - 12/25/06 02:52 PM Re: its in chopin too  
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pianojerome Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by tomt6113:
there are 48 measures in the 2nd etude. haha. i know that this is probably a fluke. but its a big coincidence.
There are 49 measures in Op. 10 No. 2. (and 48 isn't a fibonnaci number anyway: 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55...)

On first thought, I thought maybe there were just three 16-measure phrases (or six 8-measure phrases).

Checking the score, I see it as divided into three sections: 18 measures, 17 measures, and 14 measures. Total: 49.


Sam
#587869 - 12/25/06 09:22 PM Re: its in chopin too  
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Bernard Offline
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Quote
i dont think chopin consciously did it. the point is the golden sprial/ratio/section shows up a lot in nature and the rectangle mentioned is considered to be "the most pleasing rectangle to look at".
I heard that the distance from the top of a person's head to the bottom of their feet divided by the distance from their belly button to the bottom of their feet is the golden ratio! ??


"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown
#587870 - 12/26/06 12:39 AM Re: its in chopin too  
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tomt6113 Offline
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whoops i miscounted. and point taken...dead topic.


im not really in a creative mood

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