Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner HELP!! Where do I start??!!

Hi guys, I have finally registered to this forum in the hope of getting some inspiration! Here's the deal: I am 32 yrs old, played quite serious classical piano up to the age of 17/18 (did all my exams in the UK), then didn't touch a piano for about 5 years when I went to University.

For the last several years I have been buying loads of sheet music (most of it pretty poor), pop stuff, Elton John, Billy Joel, etc. What I would love, more than anything, is to be able to sit down a play a few popular tunes when a piano is sitting around. For example, in hotel bars, someone's house, wherever it happens to be. I'm sure you know the thing I mean, the cocktail painist set-up, playing either from complete music or fake books.

I know I'm a technically decent pianist, I just don't have the confidence to sit down and play, because I just don't know any complete songs well enough.

Unfortunately I am not an "improvisational" pianist, and fake books mean absolutely nothing to me. This frustrates me enormously, since I think I am a good enough player, I just don't know where to begin translating a chord in a fake book into an actual sequence of notes on the keyboard.

I'm sure this isn't just a matter of knowing advanced chord theory (although I do know a bit from my "proper" playing days).

Any hints? Is it just a case of sitting down and learning a piece by heart? If so, maybe the more songs I learn from full sheet music, the easier it would get to play others.

I feel terrible every time I see a piano that is begging to be played, because I get huge pressure from family and friends to sit down and play, but I am almost always forced to refuse to play, just because I know that without music it just won't happen. And to be honest, even WITH music, I need to have played the piece a thousand times before I am comfortable "performing".

I am sure I am not the only person to have had these problems, so any advice is very gratefully received!

Thanks in advance,

Richard

I was waiting for somebody more qualified to reply but seeing no one has I shall do my best for you.

You can only work from what you already know and proceed toward that which you wish to know in your own way. Do you want to achieve this for yourself and your own music, or for your family and friends ? The former would be far preferable, because in learning these things, it is easier if you are free from all mental pressure of what others think about your efforts.

What I would be inclined to do first is find a teacher, probably a retired professional with the style and abilities you want to acquire. These people are not common, it may take you some time to find one, but they do exist, and they are not necessarily found in orthodox musical circles or among those with qualifications.

I am taking a shrewd guess here, but perhaps you need a private playing environment to develop these abilities, where it is all right to fumble and experiment, to make any sounds at all without fear of criticism or comparison. Inhibition, if I am not mistaken, is probably your first and possibly your only hurdle. It can assume frightening proportions in a mature person. Nothing terrible is going to happen if you botch everything up for a few months, you know.

So two good things to start with - get a teacher skilled in doing what you want to do and in whom you have confidence, and cease worrying about performing or what other people think of the sounds you make.

Simply believing that you can acquire these skills is the first step.

Ted2 speaks wisely - as he usually does - and his suggestions should be seriously considered.

One other suggestion: Many "pop" standards have been published in arrangements by famous, by not-so-famous and even by unknown arrangers. You might pick up a few of those and learn some of the arrangements that appeal to you. Doing so might also give you some ideas of how to begin making your own arrangements.

Regards,

I'm going through the same thing now. I have this old jazz pianist who wants me to learn to read lead sheets, and I'm interested in doing it. Previously I have learned to sight-read reasonably well for a middling amateur pianist, by learning such things as patterns of rhythms, some of the feel of chords, and unlearning to think of notes as A, B, C, etc., and learning them as notes on the piano. Now I have to go back and learn A, B, C, etc. as chords and tonalities, and some of the relationships between them. Also, I have to learn that some of the chords you run across as guitar chords are, in fact, guitar chords that don't necessarily correspond to the actual chord which accompanies the note.

I am looking at songbooks that I have, so that I have standard arrangements to refer to, but trying to make my own accompaniments from the voice and guitar line. It's a start.

Anyway, it's going to take time. I guess I have until her next Fourth of July party, when she is going to expect me to play with her friends, some of whom are world-class. No pressure there!

There two excellent books that will allow you to play in piano bars.

How to play from a fake book by Michael Esterowitz
(Ekay music)

How to play from a fake book by Blake Neely (Hal Leonard).

Both are complementary.

You can order them at Amazon.com.

I practice every day with a book that contains 100 chord progressions from Queen, Elton John, american ballads, salsa, jazz.

I find it really exhilarating and the more I practice, the more I am addicted.

It is in French, but the chord progressions are in international notation and are beautiful.

Les accords au piano

Good luck. :t:

Ted2 may well be right about the "privacy" issue. When I got a "headphonable" electronic keyboard I felt much more at ease with fumbling around, either technically or harmonically, without worrying about what others might think....or what I might think about bothering them. It also opened up the "after midnight" hours for practice.

I also agree that you should find a real-time/real-person teacher to assist the learning process. You will need to learn the basic chords (major and minor triads, dominant and major 7ths, 6ths, augmented and the diminished 7ths are the main ones) well enough to make them almost instinctive. Some of this can and must be done with self-study from books, but a teacher pointing out the inter-relationships, straightening out misunderstandings, and explaining some of the differences in notation saves a lot of wasted time and trouble.

I'm not exactly sure what BDB meant by:

"Now I have to go back and learn A, B, C, etc. as chords and tonalities, and some of the relationships between them"

but I'm taking it to mean that you'll learn to instinctively know for instance that the 6th of D is B and the Dominant 7ths of F#, B, E, and A are E, A, D and G respectively, so if a lead sheet in the key of D calls for a

III7 - VI7 - II7 - V7

bridge progression you'll know its F#7 - B7 - E7 - A7 and what the 7ths are.

A couple of caveats.
First, most lead sheets don't use the Roman Numeral notation. They would spell out the chord symbols, but there are a lot of common progressions and sometimes its easier to remember them by their scale position than their letter names. ( ii7 - V7 - I being the most common example)
Second, the Major and minor triads just have to sort of fall off your fingers without much thought at all, but they probably already do for you, at least in most of the keys. 2nds and 7ths are pretty easy and the 6ths become "natural" eventually.


I don't know the books that Benedict recommended, but (pardon the pun) he gives sound advice.

Heres a good web site (there are many and you will find more in the PianoWorld FAQ forum) that lists many common chord progressions and several well known songs containing each of the progressions.

http://www.ralphpatt.com/Tonal.html

Heres the index of the lead sheets of the songs he has analyzed.
http://www.ralphpatt.com/Song.html


Well, I checked the FAQ and didn't find much already listed there, but if you hit the "search" button and type "Music Theory" as "Subject Only" and "Any Date" in "All Open Forums" you'll find several good threads. "Improvise" would also be a good search word, as would "Jazz" or "lead sheet".


I don't think its "about sitting down and learning a song by heart" although you will have to have the melody down pat. Its more learning the chords well, then learning what chord progressions are common (or which ones are used in the song at hand) and what chord "qualities" you like to use. (Major 7ths or flatted 9ths, throwing in a diminished 7th now and then, etc). Eventually, you'll have the song as you like it best, and at that point it is, in a sense, memorized.

If you DO play from sheet music, make sure it does have the chord symbols so that you'll become more familiar with them. Or figure the symbols out and write them in as way of learning them. (Just ONE example of where a teacher's assistance would come in handy .)


"Unfortunately I am not an "improvisational" pianist, and fake books mean absolutely nothing to me."

I think you are tieing these two concepts too closely together and may be psyching yourself out as a result. Learning the chords so that you can play from fake books won't automatically let you pull 15 second Fatts Waller "riffs" out of thin air, and thinking that it will may lead to frustration.
It WILL, however, allow you to follow and play the harmonic outline of the song from start to finish. Learn the chord symbols and their spellings first.
One working definition of improvisation could be " the path taken from the initial chord of a phrase to the final chord of the phrase". The path taken can be simple
( I - VI7 - II7 - V7 - I ) for instance, or more complex
(I - { I7 - VII7 - bVII7 }- VI7 - II7 - V7 - I )
but they both start at the same place and end at the same goal.


Since in the past, you played pieces that were already "finished" , you may feel at the beginning that your bass hand in particular is lacking in rhythm or direction or "style". Just plod on for a while with block chords down there (or 10ths sound nice if you can reach them easily) till you get a feel for the song and the chords. Then branch out a little.


Just one more comment before I say "good luck" (and be patient with yourself):
There are only 3 diminished 7th chords: the one with Bb and Db (= Bbdim7, Dbdim7, Gdim7, and Edim7); the one with Eb and Gb; and the one with just Ab. The remaining notes in the chords are white keys. (Thats pretty cryptic, but it works for me. )


Here's a link with one of the several excellent posts made by Kreisler.

Pianist Corner » How should I approach Jazz?
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/2/4345.html

Good luck,
(did I mention to be patient with yourself?)

Bob

Bob-- you rock. That was an excellent post!

Nina

Bob,
Excellent and helpful advice.

Richard,

I have found that the basic training is scales and arpeggios in absolutely all keys.
It will give you the basic blocks that are used in songs.

Then, you have 4 triads : major, minor, augmented and diminished, two sixthes chords (major and minor) and a few seventh chords :
dominant 7th (C E G Bb)
major 7th (C E G B)
minor 7th (C Eb G Bb)
minor 7th major(C Eb G B)

You can add the augmented 7th (C M F# A#)
the dominant 7th sus(suspended) chord : (C F G Bb)
and the dominant seventh (C Eb G A (Bbb).

I would suggest getting to know them intimately (as chords and arpeggios). You can even play the chord with one hand and the arpeggio with the other (and change).

When you really know them and can play them without looking at the keyboard. you will be ready to play any fake book.

There is a way to play the third and the note of the melody with the right hand and the other notes on the chord with the left hand which is very musical.

With these chords you can play all the songs you'll find.

And you'll probably be able to improvise your own music.

Once you feel fluent with C, you can transfer this skill to all keys.
It is real fun.

I find that it is really great fun to play songs.
I just borrowed a whole fake book of rock music with songs by Police, U2, Eagle, Clash, Queen, Joe Cocker.

My goal : I open the book and I just play (and sing if I had one glass too many : : ).
Simple as that.

With the basic training I suggest, you can become absolutely fluent in 3 months. The key is to really know these 14 chords so intimately that when you read the letter, you just are able to play.

Then, a new phase will start : rythmic variety. But, it should be very easy once the basic blocks are there. And looking at the song books will give you a lot of ideas (and listening to records too, of course). It will seem obvious to you.

If you need more info, you can e-mail me.

Good luck.

Hi everybody, sorry it's taken so long for me to reply, but thanks to everyone for your extensive and very helpful advice. There are obviously different methods that work for different people, but at least you have made me realise that perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel after all!

Wow, Great posts Bob and Benedict! One of my initial goals when starting piano was to eventually be able to play any song in a fake book and have it sound good. Your posts make it seem actually possible!