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#584117 - 03/01/07 11:11 PM Re: New member here  
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op30no3 Offline
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Hey-- how do you pedal the fourth measure (and similar measures) of the thirds etude? No matter what I do, I can't stand how it sounds.

P.S. If you wonder about my asking you so many questions, there is really no one here in Jackson, TN with the kind of experience and/or education that you have. I don't think anybody around here would be able to answer the vast majority of the questions I have about music-- half of my piano playing is self-taught. Anyway, I always use my more extraordinary resources as much as I can, as they are a rare luxury.


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#584118 - 03/02/07 07:28 AM Re: New member here  
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JBiegel Offline
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RH--I assume the measure before the ascending scale in thirds:
1/3, 2/5, 1/3, 2/4

How's that?

Fraggle: don't over do that diminished seventh stretch--shake your hands out after--and remember to bounce the wrist slightly to relieve any tension after you drop into the key slowly each time--remember: 2 counts up, 2 counts down in the key--each count is quarter note=56-60ish. Count out loud: up--2--down--2 that way--it forces you to stay in the beat.

#584119 - 03/02/07 12:45 PM Re: New member here  
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Jeff Question:

What advice can you give to the art of memorizing? How do you prepare? Do you memorize notes? Mechanics? I am astonished at those of you who can have a repitoire in your head and be able to play anything from memory!

#584120 - 03/02/07 01:57 PM Re: New member here  
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sophial Offline
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Jeff,
welcome! I listened to some of your performance clips-- mindblowing! thanks for being here. You will be inundated with questions before long. When you want to tackle this (maybe in its own thread), I'd love to hear your advice about tone production-- how do you produce "good tone" in general and any specific recommendations for using hand/arm weight and how to do it? thanks!

Sophia

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#584121 - 03/02/07 02:07 PM Re: New member here  
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JBiegel Offline
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For both Vogel and Sophial: memorizing comes from the inside out aside from harmonic, melodic and tactile memory (fingerings etc) What I mean is, if you can sing along as you plaay, somehow, your natural vocal instrument ties together with your finger memory, and your brain. It's just one tactic--however, taking broken chords and playing them as blocked chords offers a firm grasp of the harmonic structure (I'm going through this now with Daniel Dorff's Concerto I'm readying for a premiere with the Etowah Youth Orchestra in Gadsden this May).

Tone production: sing, sing and sing out loud. Draw sound 'from' the piano. As Adele Marcus often said, "Play 'with' the piano, not 'at' the piano." Play on the cushions of the fingers, not the tip, for beautiful round and singing sound--of course, for certain things, close to the keys and closer to the tips is necessary for speed and facility. Mould the phrases with your hand and wrist, use the arm as a violinist does with a bow. This applies to everything. And don't sit too high, so have natural body weight as you lean slightly forward into the piano.

#584122 - 03/02/07 03:48 PM Re: New member here  
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vogel54 Offline
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Thanks Jeff,

I am currently reading Boris Berman's book entitled "Notes From the Piano Bench" and he discusses exactly what you advise in his section on technique.

Thanks ,
Nick

#584123 - 03/02/07 10:58 PM Re: New member here  
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sophial Offline
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Jeff,
thanks very much! I like your descriptions and examples. can you talk a bit more about how to draw sound "from" the piano?

Sophia

#584124 - 03/02/07 11:23 PM Re: New member here  
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JBiegel Offline
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Feel as though you are pulling the sound from the strings through the keys toward your torso. Hard to put into words. It's like wiping the keys toward you--but not too much.

#584125 - 03/03/07 01:11 AM Re: New member here  
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sophial Offline
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sounds interesting- i'll have to try it.
Thanks, Jeff

Sophia

#584126 - 03/03/07 07:16 AM Re: New member here  
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Quote
Originally posted by JBiegel:


"Play 'with' the piano, not 'at' the piano." ....
Mould the phrases with your hand and wrist, use the arm as a violinist does with a bow. This applies to everything.
I Especially like the thought of playing WITH the piano not at. I feel the piano is an extension of my fingers.

If only I could sing! But, perhaps my fingers are my voice.

Roberta


"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."
#584127 - 03/03/07 07:36 AM Re: New member here  
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JBiegel Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by lilylady:
Quote
Originally posted by JBiegel:
[b]

"Play 'with' the piano, not 'at' the piano." ....
Mould the phrases with your hand and wrist, use the arm as a violinist does with a bow. This applies to everything.
I Especially like the thought of playing WITH the piano not at. I feel the piano is an extension of my fingers.

If only I could sing! But, perhaps my fingers are my voice.

Roberta [/b]
That's exactly the point--since I don't have a great singing voice, somehow, I can make the piano sing the way I wish I could with my own vocal instrument.

#584128 - 03/26/07 08:23 PM Re: New member here  
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Tenuto Offline
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Thanks, Jeff, for your patience and advice. I am re-learning Chopin's Black Key Etude. I have a B.Mus. degree in piano from U of M. I used to play it a little too heavy. I am discovering a lighter approach (especially in the R.H. My question is this: I haven't been able to bring it up to the speed I envision. Why am I having a problem with speed? Any advice on this would be much appreciated. Thanks!

#584129 - 03/27/07 05:24 AM Re: New member here  
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JBiegel Offline
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Play it slowly and forte--then gradually faster playing less forte. I play this etude using fingers either curved, or quite to the contrary, flatter fingers. It depends on the sound of the piano in the hall. I just don't naturally play it straight through with curved fingers only--the flatter fingers occasionally take the hear off the fingers being curved 100% of the time.

#584130 - 03/27/07 10:32 AM Re: New member here  
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Tenuto Offline
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Thanks so much for your quick response. I will try all of it. One more question - do your fingers stay very close to the keys, or do you have the wrist and arm motion going all the time?

#584131 - 03/27/07 08:03 PM Re: New member here  
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JBiegel Offline
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JBiegel  Offline
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Hi guys and gals--a friend of mine created a montage with my audio only Chopin Double Thirds--it is Matthew cameron's montage creation--he's the guy who transcribed Mozart's Eine Kleine Nachtmusik--which is also on YouTube and is published by International Edition. Here is the link--if it doesn't work, you can type in the tag words Jeffrey Biegel Chopin Etude

YouTube - Jeffrey Biegel performs Chopin Etude Op. 25 No. 6

#584132 - 03/28/07 05:21 AM Re: New member here  
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JBiegel Offline
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I posted word about this You Tube addition at 'Member Recordings' which seems the appropriate forum tab.

#584133 - 04/10/07 01:54 AM Re: New member here  
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JBiegel Offline
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Tenuto--did the advice work for you?

#584134 - 04/11/07 12:59 AM Re: New member here  
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Tenuto Offline
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I've been practicing loud, slow, no pedal, and a combination of curved and not-so-curved fingers. Last week I started to get back into the pedal and the speed and "voila" it's really working out! Thanks for some great advice!

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