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piano majors being secluded #578772
09/12/05 11:08 PM
09/12/05 11:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 500
VA/MD/England...long story...
LWpianistin Offline OP
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VA/MD/England...long story...
In my second year as a music major, I have come to notice one thing: piano majors are often forgotten, it seems, or at least separated from the instrumentalists and vocalists. Up until last semester, some other music majors still thought I was a vocal major!! :rolleyes: Also, I have noticed that piano majors seem to be in the practice rooms ALL THE TIME. I tend to practice for 3 hours a day, which I feel isn't enough. The instrumentalists will practice for an hour or so, and the vocalists will practice for about 1/2 an hour. So, why is it that the hardest working group of musicians are often the ones left out of the loop? There is the obvious answer that unless they know another instrument, pianists aren't in Wind Symphony or the equivalent. But is there any other reason we are secluded from the rest?


That's right...I have the same birthday as Mozart. If only it meant something and I could have one thousandth of his genius...in my dreams, i suppose.
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Re: piano majors being secluded #578773
09/13/05 12:20 AM
09/13/05 12:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 269
Midwest
Suz Offline
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I wouldn't call the other musicians less hard working! I can (or I could) practice my piano for 3 straight hours, no problem. If I tried to do that on my viola, I would be in AGONY. Having said that, I can't believe the other guys only practice an hour a day. Maybe they break it up? Or practice elsewhere--they are a lot more portable than pianos, you know! smile

I think you answered your own question about pianists in seclusion.

Re: piano majors being secluded #578774
09/13/05 12:49 AM
09/13/05 12:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,837
Iowa City, IA
Kreisler Offline
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We like it that way. laugh


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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Re: piano majors being secluded #578775
09/13/05 10:04 AM
09/13/05 10:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,846
RHUL
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Max W Offline
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I will be doing all my practise in my flat when I go to a conservatoire/uni - taking my digital in my car so I know I can get at least a couple of hours in.

Re: piano majors being secluded #578776
09/13/05 06:48 PM
09/13/05 06:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 500
VA/MD/England...long story...
LWpianistin Offline OP
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I also have a digital in my room. I do realise that it's a lot easier for piaists to practice for longer periods of time, if they have the time in the first place :p I play some double bass, and after 1/2 an hour my fingers hurt. I just don't understand why it seems that pianists tend to practice more.


That's right...I have the same birthday as Mozart. If only it meant something and I could have one thousandth of his genius...in my dreams, i suppose.
Re: piano majors being secluded #578777
09/13/05 07:08 PM
09/13/05 07:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,868
pianojerome Offline
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Why do pianists practice more?

The answer is obvious.

The piano is a FAR SUPERIOR instrument to ALL other instruments, and we pianists are FAR SUPERIOR to ALL other instrumentalists.


laugh


Sam
Re: piano majors being secluded #578778
09/13/05 07:10 PM
09/13/05 07:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,868
pianojerome Offline
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Seriously, though, singers can't sing for 8 hours every day, because they'll lose their voice.

Wind players can't play for 8 hours every day, because they'll bust their chops.


Sam
Re: piano majors being secluded #578779
09/13/05 08:05 PM
09/13/05 08:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 147
Houston, TX
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SinspawnAmmes Offline
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Truth.


Demi me, please!
Re: piano majors being secluded #578780
09/13/05 08:32 PM
09/13/05 08:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,921
SC Mountains
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Quote
Originally posted by pianojerome:
Why do pianists practice more?

The answer is obvious.

The piano is a FAR SUPERIOR instrument to ALL other instruments, and we pianists are FAR SUPERIOR to ALL other instrumentalists.


laugh
Sam, I just LOVE the way you think!


Slow down and do it right.
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Re: piano majors being secluded #578781
09/13/05 08:55 PM
09/13/05 08:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 500
VA/MD/England...long story...
LWpianistin Offline OP
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VA/MD/England...long story...
I must agree, Sam, that I love the first answer you gave! Although, I do know that other musicians aren't able to practice as often as pianists, even if they do break it up. It's just strange to be our own little world, especially in college. I like to think it's because we're special....in a good way. smile


That's right...I have the same birthday as Mozart. If only it meant something and I could have one thousandth of his genius...in my dreams, i suppose.
Re: piano majors being secluded #578782
09/13/05 09:43 PM
09/13/05 09:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,868
pianojerome Offline
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The piano is also a much more practical instrument.

As David Barber writes, playing the piano in one's home "ensures the early departure of unwanted guests."

(Barber. A Musician's Dictionary. 53.)


Sam
Re: piano majors being secluded #578783
09/14/05 03:44 PM
09/14/05 03:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 808
Whittier, California
Contrapunctus Offline
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I think that pianists practice more because there is more to learning music on their instrument than other instruments. After all, piano music has TWO cleffs!
Kreisler, are you still going to USC? I've seen pianists from USC perform. They're usually very good.


I don't know what the meaning of life is- I'm too busy to figure it out.
Re: piano majors being secluded #578784
09/14/05 04:00 PM
09/14/05 04:00 PM
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Posts: 12
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I am a pianist, organist, and vocalist. I studied all 3 at college and have done so through the years. Here is my thought. To play the piano or organ, I have to have an instrument in front of me to play. This would be true with any instrumentalists. But, with voice, I sing wherever or whenever I choose. My instrument is always with me. I don't think is has anything to do with who is the best musician.


M.L. O'Donnell
Re: piano majors being secluded #578785
09/14/05 05:53 PM
09/14/05 05:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 500
VA/MD/England...long story...
LWpianistin Offline OP
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I never meant it to seem as if pianists are the best musicians. My dad went to Indiana for theory and double bass, and he is an excellent musician. It just seems that a lot more of the pianists take themselves and their studies more seriously than the other music majors at my school. Key word there: seems. I was just wondering if it's like that at other places.


That's right...I have the same birthday as Mozart. If only it meant something and I could have one thousandth of his genius...in my dreams, i suppose.
Re: piano majors being secluded #578786
09/14/05 06:26 PM
09/14/05 06:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
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USA
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Setting aside the fact that pianists can play their instruments a lot longer than other instrumentalists and vocalists can play theirs before fatigue sets in, I think that most young pianists in school practice longer than other instrumentalists because they haven't learned how to practice most efficiently. They haven't needed to. When I was in school, I spent long hours daily confined in a practice room and accomplished a fraction of what I do presently in a shorter amount of time. As I get older, I grow more impatient with time wasted at my instrument.


www.elclandestinomusic.com

"Moralists have no place in an art gallery" ---Han Suyin

"Paint's not really a great thing to bring into a museum" ---Adam Sorenson, The Shape of Things
Re: piano majors being secluded #578787
09/14/05 06:27 PM
09/14/05 06:27 PM
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Posts: 211
texas
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It gets lonely playing piano. You practice alone all day and you perform alone for the most part. There aren't a lot of opportunities for ensemble playing.

Don't know if piano attracts more solitary people to it or if it creates them.

The older I get, the more interesting duets and two-piano pieces look because I get tired of the solitude.

Re: piano majors being secluded #578788
09/14/05 06:49 PM
09/14/05 06:49 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by poulencfan:
[QB] It gets lonely playing piano. You practice alone all day and you perform alone for the most part. There aren't a lot of opportunities for ensemble playing.

I beg to differ. Ensemble opportunities for pianists abound, at least in larger markets. Ensemble playing is where it's at, in my opinion, and pianists need to explore that avenue more, to avoid the self-imposed seclusion that plagues most students.

As a student, I really disliked collaborative playing, but now it's the only music I want to play. I'm through with solo repertoire, abundant as it may be.


www.elclandestinomusic.com

"Moralists have no place in an art gallery" ---Han Suyin

"Paint's not really a great thing to bring into a museum" ---Adam Sorenson, The Shape of Things
Re: piano majors being secluded #578789
09/14/05 06:54 PM
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Pianomad, you're probably right, but when you're a student in a competitive school and flogged if you don't practice 6 hours+ a day (6 hours daily was required of piano majors at IU when I was there), it's hard to find the time and energy to explore other opportunities.

Re: piano majors being secluded #578790
09/14/05 07:21 PM
09/14/05 07:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 500
VA/MD/England...long story...
LWpianistin Offline OP
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I must say that I would LOVE to play in ensembles, but at my school, which is a small, unknown college, with a smaller music department, the only opportunity I have to play in such a setting is Jazz Band, and as much as I like jazz, I want to concentrate on "classical" music. So, I have no opportunity to play in an ensemble while at this school. I haven't even accompanied anyone before, and I have to somehow do that this year. I don't really mind being alone to practice, and being in the university choir helps some feelings of isolation.


That's right...I have the same birthday as Mozart. If only it meant something and I could have one thousandth of his genius...in my dreams, i suppose.
Re: piano majors being secluded #578791
09/14/05 09:31 PM
09/14/05 09:31 PM
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LW - surely there is a lone violinist, flute player or clarinet player - or maybe a vocalist you could accompany. Not to mention, get another pianist and do four-hand... there are so many great works for four-hands. Mozart, Faure, Schubert, Debussy, Ravel, Mendelssohn, Bizet - that's just the tip of the iceberg. It's so much fun to practice with someone who is *on the same page*, as they say.

Re: piano majors being secluded #578792
09/14/05 11:05 PM
09/14/05 11:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 500
VA/MD/England...long story...
LWpianistin Offline OP
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Thanks for the ideas, opus119. I have found another piano student who wants to work on duet and duo-piano literature. We actually have a goal for our Senior Recital, or maybe even Junior Recital: Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue, duo-piano. It will be quite a challenge, I think, but a fun one, even if we don't have it ready for a recital. smile I'm sure I'll find someone to accompany soon, since I need it for credit!


That's right...I have the same birthday as Mozart. If only it meant something and I could have one thousandth of his genius...in my dreams, i suppose.
Re: piano majors being secluded #578793
09/18/05 03:42 AM
09/18/05 03:42 AM
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Yeah, i was going to ask if you didn't have a mandatory duets class for a year or two.. we have two here, and they're great! This semester, six pairs of us are going to do a few each of the 21 hungarian dances by Brahms, and then perform them in order. Should be fun!

Re: piano majors being secluded #578794
09/18/05 08:00 AM
09/18/05 08:00 AM
Joined: May 2001
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Victoria, BC
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Quote
Originally posted by kcoul058:
Yeah, i was going to ask if you didn't have a mandatory duets class for a year or two.. we have two here, and they're great! This semester, six pairs of us are going to do a few each of the 21 hungarian dances by Brahms, and then perform them in order. Should be fun!
Indeed, you should find the Brahms fun to play. I performed a few of them with a duet partner at Summer School a couple of summers ago and enjoyed them very much.

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: piano majors being secluded #578795
09/18/05 09:30 PM
09/18/05 09:30 PM
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USA
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Quote
Originally posted by poulencfan:
Pianomad, you're probably right, but when you're a student in a competitive school and flogged if you don't practice 6 hours+ a day (6 hours daily was required of piano majors at IU when I was there), it's hard to find the time and energy to explore other opportunities.
Maybe I've forgotten what it's like to be young, full of stamina. All I know is it's usually impossible for me to practice more than 2 or 3 hours daily, even generously broken up over the course of the day. (There are the rare times I'm up all night in a fevered trance playing until the sun comes up; but I'm in an altered state then, sort of my way of speaking in tongues...) What usually happens is I get mentally exhausted and actually bored; the longer I play the less focus I have, and thus each additional minute spent at the keyboard becomes less productive. Instead of trying to fill a time quota, I make very clear goals for myself each time I sit at the piano. I can't imagine 6 hours of focused practice every day.


www.elclandestinomusic.com

"Moralists have no place in an art gallery" ---Han Suyin

"Paint's not really a great thing to bring into a museum" ---Adam Sorenson, The Shape of Things
Re: piano majors being secluded #578796
09/19/05 10:13 AM
09/19/05 10:13 AM
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Weighing in as a singer...

Voice majors generally practice solo exercises and/or lit for an hour or less a day. Undergrads will be required to do 1-2 hrs additional ensemble singing a day and grads will be doing considerably more solo/ensemble singing in rehearsal for opera workshops, main stage opera productions etc. Almost all will be singing elsewhere as well...church jobs, community opera. Bear in mind, with singers, they're putting additional miles on an instrument we all use (and mis-use) every day, in speaking. It's also an instrument that gets sick and tired along with the musician, so the singer has to be smart and not use it too much when it is in poor condition. I learned to do a lot of music learning and "practicing" in my head. Sitting by myself, thinking through the notes, rhythms and words. Saves wear and tear. If I had been learning piano lit, I would have been playing during that process of learning...the beginning stages, the memorization stage...but in singing, it was neither necessary nor desirable to do that part of it out loud. For a singer, writing the words (in many languages)of their songs and roles over and over again to hammer them into the brain is one form of "practice" that you will never hear, but takes hours, and is just as much a part of being an accomplished performer as practicing scales and arpeggios.

On the other hand...it's tempting to answer the question, "Why don't singers practice more?" with this, "because we don't need to."

wink laugh


Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

www.divadeb.com
Re: piano majors being secluded #578797
09/19/05 10:59 AM
09/19/05 10:59 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 500
VA/MD/England...long story...
LWpianistin Offline OP
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LWpianistin  Offline OP
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VA/MD/England...long story...
Quote
Originally posted by kcoul058:
Yeah, i was going to ask if you didn't have a mandatory duets class for a year or two.. we have two here, and they're great! This semester, six pairs of us are going to do a few each of the 21 hungarian dances by Brahms, and then perform them in order. Should be fun!
yes, we do have a mandatory duet class, duo-piano class, and accompanying class, all a semester long. I haven't had the chance to take any of them yet. Right now I'm taking Piano Literature. It's really fun!


That's right...I have the same birthday as Mozart. If only it meant something and I could have one thousandth of his genius...in my dreams, i suppose.
Re: piano majors being secluded #578798
09/19/05 11:05 AM
09/19/05 11:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 500
VA/MD/England...long story...
LWpianistin Offline OP
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VA/MD/England...long story...
Quote
Originally posted by divadeb:
Weighing in as a singer...

Voice majors generally practice solo exercises and/or lit for an hour or less a day. Undergrads will be required to do 1-2 hrs additional ensemble singing a day and grads will be doing considerably more solo/ensemble singing in rehearsal for opera workshops, main stage opera productions etc. Almost all will be singing elsewhere as well...church jobs, community opera. Bear in mind, with singers, they're putting additional miles on an instrument we all use (and mis-use) every day, in speaking. It's also an instrument that gets sick and tired along with the musician, so the singer has to be smart and not use it too much when it is in poor condition. I learned to do a lot of music learning and "practicing" in my head. Sitting by myself, thinking through the notes, rhythms and words. Saves wear and tear. If I had been learning piano lit, I would have been playing during that process of learning...the beginning stages, the memorization stage...but in singing, it was neither necessary nor desirable to do that part of it out loud. For a singer, writing the words (in many languages)of their songs and roles over and over again to hammer them into the brain is one form of "practice" that you will never hear, but takes hours, and is just as much a part of being an accomplished performer as practicing scales and arpeggios.

On the other hand...it's tempting to answer the question, "Why don't singers practice more?" with this, "because we don't need to."

wink laugh
I do understand that diction is VERY important. Perhaps singers don't practice as much because it doesn't take them as long to learn their music? I am currently working on three - four pieces, whereas some vocalists are working on up to six. I mean, one staff with one note at a time compared to two staves with up to 10 notes at a time...


That's right...I have the same birthday as Mozart. If only it meant something and I could have one thousandth of his genius...in my dreams, i suppose.
Re: piano majors being secluded #578799
09/19/05 05:07 PM
09/19/05 05:07 PM
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divadeb Offline
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"one staff with one note at a time compared to two staves with up to 10 notes at a time..."

Nah...it's not that at all. Singersdon't just learn the line they sing. They have to hear the harmonies and know them, know the accompaniment well, even in a solo song with piano accompaniment. If they're learning a role in an opera, they learn everyone's part, not just their own, in addition to learning where to go on stage and what to do when they get there. There really isn't a direct comparison between the "difficulty" involved in the tasks. They're both hard. Most singers can't play the piano to solo performance standards, most non-singers can't do what singers do and don't want to. They require totally different sets of skills.


Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

www.divadeb.com
Re: piano majors being secluded #578800
09/19/05 05:27 PM
09/19/05 05:27 PM
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VA/MD/England...long story...
LWpianistin Offline OP
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Of course they do. I admire singers and their talent. Wow. I never thought about the accompaniment. A slightly non-related question: Why do singers often work on the same songs at the same time? A lot of my friends who are vocal majors are working on EXACTLY the same stuff. Why?


That's right...I have the same birthday as Mozart. If only it meant something and I could have one thousandth of his genius...in my dreams, i suppose.
Re: piano majors being secluded #578801
09/19/05 07:20 PM
09/19/05 07:20 PM
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I don't know! :-)

If they are undergrads (are they?) there may be some required repertoire that they have to learn in your school's program. I tend to assign very varied rep for my students, as that is what I was used to in school. We were always working hard to find some unique cycles for recitals because we all ended up going to each other's performances. I would imagine if everyone's doing the same stuff it's a "teacher thing". Where do you go to school? Are all those singers in the same studio? Maybe somebody needs to buy their teacher some new books wink


Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

www.divadeb.com
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