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Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570005
04/20/08 03:43 PM
04/20/08 03:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 625
WV
xtraheat Offline OP
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xtraheat  Offline OP
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WV
Hey everyone! Just a couple days ago, I started learning the Bach-Busoni Chaconne (The whole thing). I'm extremely excited!!! I love this piece so much, and I'm sure it will provide me with a big enough challenge wink Anyways, sorry if some of you think this is a pointless thread, but I really want to know kind of where I am, playingwise. How does this piece compare to virtuosic milestones such as Prok Toccata, Liszt Mephisto Waltz, Ondine, Don Juan, Chopin Ballade no.4, and whatever else?? It seems to me that it would be a lot easier, but I often hear people comparing it in difficulty to pieces such as these, and I was just wondering if this was correct. Thanks!


Currently working on
Prokofiev Piano Concerto 3
Beethoven Sonata Op.109
Chopin Op.10 No.1
Bach WTC II no. 15

--Sam--
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Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570006
04/20/08 04:08 PM
04/20/08 04:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,733
Betelgeuse, baby!
Janus K. Sachs Offline
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Betelgeuse, baby!
Technically I personally find the Bach-Busoni to be easier than all the other pieces you mentioned. But really everyone's technical strengths and weaknesses are different, so I'm sure others will think differently.


Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570007
04/20/08 04:26 PM
04/20/08 04:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 188
Norway
Anders39 Offline
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I think it looks harder than the Prokofiev. Love the piece by the way.


"Silence is music too"
Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570008
04/20/08 05:05 PM
04/20/08 05:05 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,501
Champaign, IL
Fleeting Visions Offline
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Shouldn't be too bad. Far more difficult is playing at utmost quality such a long and involved piece.


Amateur Pianist, Scriabin Enthusiast, and Octave Demon
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Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570009
04/20/08 06:30 PM
04/20/08 06:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,208
San Francisco, CA
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Auntie Lynn Offline
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I understand Serkin HATED this piece, anybody else hear that? It's great on violin, I have the Vengerov...I hear he's going to take time off to re-invent himself, not that there was anything wrong with the old one...

Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570010
04/20/08 06:50 PM
04/20/08 06:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 728
South Carolina, USA
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wdot Offline
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South Carolina, USA
I love Serkin, but I'm not sure I care what he thought about this piece. I think it's a model of what it is - a romantic interpretation of a baroque masterpiece. They are both masterpieces, in my opinion.

The piece is anything but easy, but no single moment in the piece approaches the most difficult parts of the other pieces mentioned.

Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570011
04/20/08 07:06 PM
04/20/08 07:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 625
WV
xtraheat Offline OP
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xtraheat  Offline OP
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WV
Thanks for your answers everyone! I'm looking forward to reading more. I have another question... Which section is generally considered the most difficult? To me it seems like it would be either http://youtube.com/watch?v=qYUdChWqB6w the part starting at 5:54 or the rediculous ending of part 2 (one of the greatest, if not THE greatest endings of a piece I have ever heard.) And wdot, are neither of these parts as difficult as parts of the Mephisto or coda of the 4th ballade? I'm not saying they are, its just that I haven't seen anything in those two pieces that seems all that more difficult then the sections I suggested. Correct me if I am wrong, though.


Currently working on
Prokofiev Piano Concerto 3
Beethoven Sonata Op.109
Chopin Op.10 No.1
Bach WTC II no. 15

--Sam--
Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570012
04/20/08 10:33 PM
04/20/08 10:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 728
South Carolina, USA
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wdot Offline
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South Carolina, USA
Thanks for the link. That's a terrific performance.

The sections you point out are particularly difficult, but they fall pretty well under the fingers. At least to me, several sections of the Mephisto Waltz and the coda of the 4th Ballade are more difficult. Of course, if you play the climactic moments of the Bach like a bat out of heck like Pletnev does, that ramps the difficulty level up significantly.

Reasonable minds can differ on this, of course. I'm not trying to pick a fight here.

Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570013
04/20/08 11:13 PM
04/20/08 11:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 454
Connecticut/Cincinnati
C
computerpro3 Online content
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Connecticut/Cincinnati
I am completely obsessed with this chaconne. The first time I actually had ever heard it was earlier this year listening to my teacher's recording of it. I was going to ask him if I could learn it when in studio class the next day I found out that someone was already playing it in our studio.

In retrospect, I wasn't ready for it anyway (still not sure I am), so I guess it worked out.

Next year though, it would be an awesome peice for the undergrad competition.

Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570014
04/20/08 11:40 PM
04/20/08 11:40 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,260
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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xtraheat:

Why are you so concerned with this piece's relative difficulty - you brought it up twice already in this thread? If it's a piece you like and you want to play it and you can do so, what does it matter how difficult it is compared to something else?

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570015
04/21/08 05:28 PM
04/21/08 05:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 625
WV
xtraheat Offline OP
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xtraheat  Offline OP
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WV
Bruce, I realize that the difficulty of a piece does not matter a tenth as much as the musicality. I picked this piece to learn because I love it so much, it just happened to be difficult : ) Anyways, this project is definitely going to take months, and, while I'm just starting it, I would just like to know some about it. Any other information that doesn't have to do with difficulty is also welcome. Hope this answers your question!


Currently working on
Prokofiev Piano Concerto 3
Beethoven Sonata Op.109
Chopin Op.10 No.1
Bach WTC II no. 15

--Sam--
Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570016
04/21/08 05:47 PM
04/21/08 05:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 188
Norway
Anders39 Offline
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Milk the slow sections for all they're worth and don't bang the octaves. =)


"Silence is music too"
Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570017
04/21/08 08:34 PM
04/21/08 08:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,837
Iowa City, IA
Kreisler Offline
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It's actually a pretty good piece for developing one's technique. There are some difficult things, but the challenges are all pretty straightforward. Wrist octaves here, scales there, this figuration here, that pattern there...


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570018
04/23/08 08:37 PM
04/23/08 08:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 625
WV
xtraheat Offline OP
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xtraheat  Offline OP
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WV
Thanks for your answers everyone! I have one last question... I know I'm getting ahead of myself, as I have just started the Chaconne, but after I finish learning it, do you all think I would be able to handle the Godowski Passagaclia? I have heard many people say how difficult it is (especially Horowitz), but I have been reading through the score a lot and there doesn't seem to be anything rediculous... Just consistently hard for a long time. Is this a wrong assumption?


Currently working on
Prokofiev Piano Concerto 3
Beethoven Sonata Op.109
Chopin Op.10 No.1
Bach WTC II no. 15

--Sam--
Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570019
04/23/08 08:47 PM
04/23/08 08:47 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,501
Champaign, IL
Fleeting Visions Offline
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Champaign, IL
I do not think you would be ready. It is very ridiculously difficult. Try your hand at some of the more involved variations which include double-notes. You will find that the contrapuntal difficulty is tremendous and that, when combined with the technical requirements, makes for a formidable challenge.

Perhaps a better variation set to try after the Chaconne would be the Brahms Handel Variations. If you want something absurd, Le Festin D'Esope exists, and I can verify that it is exquisitely pianistic, albeirt highly demanding.

Good luck with this piece, though!

Daniel


Amateur Pianist, Scriabin Enthusiast, and Octave Demon
Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570020
04/23/08 09:21 PM
04/23/08 09:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 625
WV
xtraheat Offline OP
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xtraheat  Offline OP
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WV
OK... Thats kind of what I assumed from what I have heard about it. I'll set it as a goal for next year!


Currently working on
Prokofiev Piano Concerto 3
Beethoven Sonata Op.109
Chopin Op.10 No.1
Bach WTC II no. 15

--Sam--
Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570021
04/23/08 09:30 PM
04/23/08 09:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,522
Portland, Or.
G
gabytu Offline
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Portland, Or.
It is one of my favorite pieces. Someday I hope to be able to play it. For now, I just sit back and enjoy hearing other people's performance of this magnificent compostion. Gaby tu

Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570022
04/24/08 05:39 PM
04/24/08 05:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 51
Los Angeles, CA
M
menancy Offline
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Los Angeles, CA
Just wanted to chimed in. This is one of my wish pieces to play, although I'm probably 5 years away technically. This first version I heard was from Awadagin Pratt's debut album "A long way from Normal" and it remains my favorite version.

Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570023
05/03/08 07:54 PM
05/03/08 07:54 PM
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Posts: 82
Vancouver, BC
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Bachfan39 Offline
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Vancouver, BC
The much simpler left-hand arrangement by Brahms is a more beautiful piece--sublime and delightful without being a showpiece.

Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570024
05/06/08 08:34 AM
05/06/08 08:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 88
M
mozartian18 Offline
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xtraheat: The Chaconne is a very challenging piece, both technically and interpretatively - it has several passages that are highly technically difficult, especially for a small hand. It compares favorably in technical difficulty to those other pieces you mentioned. Another difficulty is keeping this piece together as a whole - it's architecture. If one is not careful, this piece can sound like several pieces stitched together. While the other pieces that you were comparing it with can still sound good even when played badly, the Chaconne will sound terrible to a listener if you don't understand it's architecture. This doesn't seem to be a problem with the original violin version, but it is with this piano transcription.

Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570025
05/06/08 10:00 AM
05/06/08 10:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,918
Chicago, IL USA
Palindrome Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by xtraheat:
...Which section is generally considered the most difficult? To me it seems like it would be either http://youtube.com/watch?v=qYUdChWqB6w the part starting at 5:54 or the rediculous ending of part 2....
Appears to have been deleted by the YouTube administration. Whose performance was that?


There is no end of learning. -Robert Schumann Rules for Young Musicians
Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570026
05/06/08 05:34 PM
05/06/08 05:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 625
WV
xtraheat Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
xtraheat  Offline OP
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Posts: 625
WV
Pletnev if I remember correctly... BTW... Thanks everyone for the answers! This is very helpful


Currently working on
Prokofiev Piano Concerto 3
Beethoven Sonata Op.109
Chopin Op.10 No.1
Bach WTC II no. 15

--Sam--
Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570027
05/06/08 05:39 PM
05/06/08 05:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 625
WV
xtraheat Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
xtraheat  Offline OP
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WV
Just wondering... Why does every single thread I make get 1 star??


Currently working on
Prokofiev Piano Concerto 3
Beethoven Sonata Op.109
Chopin Op.10 No.1
Bach WTC II no. 15

--Sam--
Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570028
05/06/08 07:15 PM
05/06/08 07:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,863
Connecticut
dannylux Offline
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Sam,

There's an interesting analysis of the violin score here:

http://solomonsmusic.net/bachacon.htm

I had no idea there was so much going on.


Mel


"Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get — only what you are expecting to give — which is everything. You give because you love and cannot help giving." Katharine Hepburn
Re: Bach-Busoni Chaconne #570029
05/07/08 07:39 PM
05/07/08 07:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 277
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Last night I attended Gabriela Montero's performance here and she opened with this piece. She made it look so easy. It was fabulous.


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