Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner My thoughts on the first Chopin etude

First of all let me just say that I've posted before but am glad to be back as I have been away from a computer for a while.

While I've been working on and perfecting the first Chopin study, I've come up with a few ideas of my own about how one can make the piece somewhat easier to play and I would like to share them with everyone.

The first thing I found out was that in order to gain any speed at all, it is essential to use Chopin's fingering. I discovered this after I had been practicing it with some fingerings that my teacher had provided (He is currently doing several recitals of different sets of the etudes). A lot of these fingerings involved skipping or changing hand positions in the arpeggios very rapidly, such as playing the measure with C,Eb,A,Eb (we all know which one that is ) with the fingering 2,3,1,3 instead of the usual 1,2,4,5.

While this works well at a moderate tempo and is very secure, there is a definite limit as to how fast it can be played with the altered fingering. Chopin's, while much more difficult, I think will prove better in the long run.

The next thought I had was discovered quite by accident. The first time I had gone back through the etude with Chopin's fingering, I noticed that my upper arm and shoulder were quite sore. This led me to conclude that not only is wrist motion necessary but getting the forearm, upper arm, and shoulder involved is essential. The more one can involve these muscles in slow practice, the better.

When I say slow practice, I mean slooow. The slower the better I would say. Here's why:

Each separate arpeggio in each octave requires a slighty different combination of wrist,forearm, and upper arm angles to play. There are also some arpeggios that have the thumb on the black key which requires a sort of weaving motion from the wrist. Training the hand and arm muscles to get used to the angles and stretches takes a long time. It is quite possible to miss notes even at a slow speed.

Flat fingers. What I mean by this is that a minimum of actual finger motion should be involved. What we're really going for here is a weight transference of the forearm muscles to the hand. To visualize this, think of using the arm to make the fingers "lie down" on the keys instead of actually striking them from the knuckles. To aid in this, try to make your body "follow" your arm as it travels up and down the keyboard. This helps tremendously in achieving a forte dynamic throughout.

My final idea is one about mental concentration. I feel one has to know the notes so well (there are over 1200!) that one could write them out on staff paper. When you get to that point, then let the brain and tactile memory do the work for you but try to stay compeletly focused on what you're doing.

I hope I haven't made this post too long. But I wanted to make sure I said everything I wanted to say. I appreciate your comments and any advice you all have also.

Thanks,

Jerry

I was wondering where did you get Chopin's fingering from? i have a version with the 1245 fingering and i would like to look at the Chopin's version.

Falcon39,

The 1245 is Chopin's fingering. The 2313 is the fingering that my teacher had come up with for playing that particular arpeggio. In fact, every fingering printed on the page is Chopin's. I reread my post, and I realized it wasn't very clear about that point. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks,

Jerry

Thanks for all the advice. Though I'm probably a good deal below the level required to play this piece, I've read that it can be technically useful if played by less accomplished pianists at a slow slow speed and with care. Same goes for the Revolutionary Etude.

First off, all Etudes especially those by Chopin and Liszt must be Urtext if possible. That way, if the composer wrote fingering in, you can be sure that it hasn't been changed by the publisher. Afterall, an etude is a technical study and to change the fingering intended by the composer ruins the whole purpose of an etude. Sometimes, the fingering written by the composer is awkward on purpose, but if you changed it to make it more comfortable for yourself, that's cheating .

Mike

mkesfahani,

I stated in my post that the alternative fingerings were provided by my teacher. He told me that he came up with them several years ago when he learned all the etudes as a way to be able to peform the arpeggios with more security. I practiced it with those fingerings for the same reason. But, as I went on to say, I have returned to Chopin's fingering and am now using it to practice the etude for all the reasons I gave above. So, no, it wasn't cheating; just an alternative way to practice the piece to get the notes.

Also, just because something is an Urtext edition does not guarantee that nothing has been altered by the publisher. Remember, Chopin had his works published in three different cities simultaneously, and he was known—especially in the waltzes—for changing dynamics and even notes. That's why I think it is best to consult several editions of the etudes because one can get interesting ideas about dynamics, execution, etc.

Thanks,

Jerry

Isn't pretty difficult to change fingering once you got used to another?

I would be careful when talking about Chopin's fingering. We may never know what his fingering was.

Chopin was known for changing his fingerings very often when he played his own pieces. Given how moody he was, changing the fingering was probably a way to make the piece sound the particular way he wanted at a given time. There is even a quote from him or one of his students (I forgot... I'll check and get back to you).
That quote says that the fingering determines how a particular sequence of notes will sound, therefore has to be chosen wisely by the performer.

Also, if you read the preface in Henle. It clearly says that there is no manuscript from Chopin for the first etude of Op10. The manuscript we have was written by his sister. That could mean a lot or nothing at all. But potentially, the fingering on that etude may be just one adapted to a particular one of Chopin's students.
Chopin often adapted the fingering and even modified certain passages of music to make them more accessible to his students.

have anyone studied any of the debussy's etudes?
on the first pages there's something very interesting writed by the composer (debussy of course) saying that he didn't put any fingering intentionally and that every hand is different so there's no reason to put a strict fingering because everyone should look for the most comfortable fingering.

Hi StanSteel,

To answer your question, it wasn't difficult at all for me to change the fingering. I was surprised myself. I guess because it is either 1235 or 1245, and I just had to remember which particular arpeggios used 3 or 4. But I do know that the printed fingering was the only one that let me get my arm and shoulder fully involved in playing the notes.

I haven't studied them, but played around with them a lot. I got to the conclusion that they are very difficult. They sound easier than they really are.
The only one that is relatively easy is the last one which is the chords etude. The difficulty in that one is the alternance of octaves and chords and the fact that both hands jump at the same time so you better make sure you land on the rioght keys.
They are full of contrast both in phrasing and in rythm to the point where they sound like random improvisation at certain points.
I think it would have taken Debussy forever to write fingerings on those pieces
One of the etudes indicates fingering though, by saying that you shouldn't use the thumbs. And that is in the etude called "pour les huit doigts" (for eight fingers)

that one is amazing (the eight fingers etude)
it´s kind of "acrobatic" and also kind of hard
right now im studing the etude pour les octaves and i will play as part of a recital, of course there's no fingering and you don't need much, because the etude it's octaves and octaves and no arpeggios no scales, etc.
But if you look at the first etude of debussy, it's so complex also, and makes you think a lot about what finger to use in every note, it's a large but interesting and usefullllll work

Jerry Maddux,

My compliments to you on the depth and insights you demonstrated in your initial post (before the thread was hijacked to Debussy)! Anyone studying Op. 10/1 would be well-advised to learn from your perceptions.
You are probably one of comparatively few people that will actually master this (and other) etudes, as it does take a great deal of time and thought to become aware of the subtle technical ingredients required. I've had many students over the years play this etude, very few have actually mastered it. . . and those that do were invariably at your level of care and insight.

Keep up the thoughtful work!!

R Vaga, DMA

rvaga,

Thanks for the compliment! Op. 10, no. 1 was actually my first Chopin etude. While I know the notes I'm still doing slow practice, occasionally pushing for speed. I'm also making an informal survey of all the etudes and since starting on the first one I've completed Op. 10/3 and am working on the Revolutionary and Op. 25, no. 5.

One of my goals in doing this is to see how my thoughts and ideas about the first etude transfer to the others. For instance, I find that the idea of playing with arm and shoulder weight transfers well to the double sixths in Op. 10/3, which also provides good practice for the l.h. The arpeggios in the píu lento section of Op. 25/5 seem to respond to this approach well, but without so much shoulder as arm weight. And, since the Revolutionary is a study for the l.h., I'm particularly interested to see how well these ideas work there.

Thanks,

Jerry

Jerry,

Are you using a metronome for slow practice? If so, have you developed any sort of systematic approach?