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I ought to mention that my ability to control my 'touch' or in my own description, my ability to orchestrate the dynamics of each of the voices did not get developed until I used an acoustic.

The level of control possible with a good Grand, is still so far more than even the best digitals available today. I should know, I've owned the best digitals.

So to build this technique, one needs the proper tools.


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I travel by train quite a bit. Trains in this country have a 'quiet' carriage where mobile phones and ipods are not allowed. Last week a women sat a few seats away and took about 30 minutes to eat her lunch - all of it wrapped in some extremely crackly cellophane. Every few seconds a huge storm of crackles engulfed the carriage. It was obvious she couldn't hear the noise as effectively as we others. I've always noticed the same thing with children unzipping bags in classrooms. Just as the body does with tension, our ears shut out habitual noise. I think this is why people can't hear themselves play the piano - they're so wrapped up in the mechanical doings (like the lady with her lunch), they have difficulty focusing on the sound.

This also explains why Hanon et al are so injurious - the sound becomes habituated; it begins to always sound the same. Yet no repeated passage can ever sound the same.

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To me, “Touch” implies an exceptional correlation between your own piano technique (relaxed weight, evenness, sensibility) and your own personal, essentials achievements.

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So in other words, a person without the ability to drop the weight and without a lot of pianistic experience will have a poor touch? (But that's how we learn, by practicing the relaxation and playing a wide range of repertoire...) I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say, Cultor.


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Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
This also explains why Hanon et al are so injurious - the sound becomes habituated; it begins to always sound the same. Yet no repeated passage can ever sound the same.
I agree. I can't imagine for myself how repeating hanon exercises could improve my touch, especially an exercise geared for evenness.

But repeatedly playing Chopin Prelude 28-15 seems to do a lot more to my sensibilities...


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Hanon can only do so much. There is a point at which we outgrow exercises, and have to rely on scales and arpeggios to maintain our skills in addition to repertoire.

That said, picking certain Hanon exercises in which fingering patterns are presented, as well as exercises where there are skips that have to played evenly will help develop a sense of evenness. It's easy to hear what notes stick out!


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Q: What is a major feature in lack of touch?
A: "Banging"

Q: What is the opposite of banging?
A: Playing softly

That is it!

Try this experiment: Play a key so slowly that there is no sound. Gradually increase until you achieve a sound. Work in this range playing pianissimo fragments/melodies and work your volume slowly up from there, listening to the variety and color in your tones.

Remembering that dynamics are relative and not absolute is also critical.

Now use this in nice slow, lyrical piece, a nocturne etc. and see if your "touch" doesn't improve immediately. Good luck!


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This topic reminds me of a post made by Varcon, about the practice regime of Guiomar Novaes. Of special interest is the part that mentions crescendo in one hand and decrescendo in the other, plus her methodical practicing of arpeggios.

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with your ear.


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Quote
Originally posted by Minaku:
So in other words, a person without the ability to drop the weight and without a lot of pianistic experience will have a poor touch? (But that's how we learn, by practicing the relaxation and playing a wide range of repertoire...) I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say, Cultor.
I’m trying to say that if you don’t have a sensitive, experienced soul and a proper technique, you will never develop any touch.

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What constitutes a sensitive, experienced... soul? Like anything else touch needs to be learned and practiced a million times until it feels "right". Then you can start varying the kinds and the depthness of touch. A proper technique includes touch. heck, a proper technique is touch.

How would you go about teaching someone without the sensitive, experienced soul how to create a deep and carrying tone?


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Quote
Originally posted by Minaku:
What constitutes a sensitive, experienced... soul? Like anything else touch needs to be learned and practiced a million times until it feels "right". Then you can start varying the kinds and the depthness of touch. A proper technique includes touch. heck, a proper technique is touch.

How would you go about teaching someone without the sensitive, experienced soul how to create a deep and carrying tone?
I would say: “Go, have a proper technique, and live.”
To me, touch is not a mechanical artifact you can teach or learn.
Each person will find his/her own touch, or not, as a result of each life’s unique journey.
But it’s just my 2 cents.

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If you're vocally inclined, sing as you play the melody.
Well Minaku, seeing as how I'm not really vocally inclined; that probably wouldn't work for me. If I had a piano at the house using this method; one of my thoughtful neighbors would probably call 911 to help an obviously suffering man. Just kidding, but I'm willing the try the slow forte, with exaggerated depth. Thanks.

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When you play it back, listen to yourself with a critical ear, as if someone else was playing it.
You know Akira, that's just what I try to do. I try to imagine what my thoughts would be if I were hearing someone else play it. I sometimes think 'Man! This guy will never make it.'


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Even if you have the world's worst voice, it still helps to sing out loud when you practice. It makes your fingers become 'vocal'. Also, try to experiment by 'drawing sound from the piano', rather than pushing into the piano. This will create a warmer sound when you have the concept of drawing sound from the instrument.

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Originally posted by JBiegel:
Even if you have the world's worst voice, it still helps to sing out loud when you practice.
It seems to work for Van Cliburn. smile


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She was with me even in my grave
When the last of my friends turned away,
And she sang like the first storm heaven gave.
Or as if flowers were having their say.

- Anna Akhmatova, "Music"(Dedicated to Dmitri Shostakovich)
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Quote
Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
I travel by train quite a bit. Trains in this country have a 'quiet' carriage where mobile phones and ipods are not allowed. Last week a women sat a few seats away and took about 30 minutes to eat her lunch - all of it wrapped in some extremely crackly cellophane. Every few seconds a huge storm of crackles engulfed the carriage. It was obvious she couldn't hear the noise as effectively as we others. I've always noticed the same thing with children unzipping bags in classrooms. Just as the body does with tension, our ears shut out habitual noise. I think this is why people can't hear themselves play the piano - they're so wrapped up in the mechanical doings (like the lady with her lunch), they have difficulty focusing on the sound.

This also explains why Hanon et al are so injurious - the sound becomes habituated; it begins to always sound the same. Yet no repeated passage can ever sound the same.
Very insightful post!

Our sense of hearing shuts out habitual noise.
Our sense of feeling shuts out habitual tension.
Finally, our sense of self and ego-protecting wishful thinking can convince us we hear ourselves playing better than an objective listener can hear. Recording oneself for objective listening later is a great reality check.

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I still think Kenny is right, it is all about listening. I have been thinking about this, and come up with the following theory.

The total experience of playing the piano is a combination of hearing the music and feeling the movements and sensations in the fingers, hands and arms. It is fundamentally different from the experience of hearing the music as a listener. In order to develop "touch" and to analyse one's playing critically, it is necessary to act as a listener. This means that as one plays one has to separate mentally the aural experience from the tactile experience, and concentrate on the former.

This requires considerable concentration, which I find difficult to maintain over a long span. I do feel however that this is the key to assessing one's tone, and thereby improving. The process is of course easier when one can rely on "finger memory" to find the notes, thereby leaving the conscious mind free to concentrate on the task of hearing and assessing the sound of the music being created, while rejecting the seductive enjoyment of the movements and sensations of the fingers.

When one concentrates on listening, one can try subtle variations to the way one plays notes, and assess the results. The feedback is immediate, which with recording it is not. I find it somehow a strange and rewarding experience to really listen to myself when playing.

And it helps enormously to have a well voiced and regulated piano.

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Quote
Originally posted by keyboardklutz:

This also explains why Hanon et al are so injurious - the sound becomes habituated; it begins to always sound the same. Yet no repeated passage can ever sound the same.
But of course, it is possible to work on Hanon without it becoming any more habituated than anything else. That's what I try to do, with a fair amount of success. One thing I do when I am Hanoning is constantly trying to listen very closely. The lack of "musical" information in the exercises actually helps for some kinds of listening.

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Some interesting posts above.

In order to excel as a pianist, you must really truly WANT it with all you heart more than anything! This may sound funny but think about it. Everyone that I know who is successful in music is very passionate about it. They are almost obsessive about it. I admit I am. This love for the music is what drives me to keep on doing what I'm doing. Yes, it's tedious and yes, its a rough life, but I feel like my soul will be empty if I stop doing what I do.

So...ask yourself this question and be completely honest with yourself..How bad do I want this?

If the answer is somewhere along the lines of..."I'll do anything to make it happen."...then you must be prepared to work your *** off. I'm not kidding, every good pianist that you've heard play, whether a tennager or an amateur, has worked up blood in that practice room trying to acheive what they have dreamed. It is this fire, this passion that drives us to work.

I think to achieve good sound, everything I previously said has to be 100% true. If this applies to you, chances are you already have this "listening" ability inside of you. You just need to find a way to apply it to you practice time.

Playing with good sound is much more than just technical excercises and practice. It's dedication.

Thats my 2cents. Hope it helps


"Simplicity is the final achievement." - Chopin
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