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Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558639 07/19/08 10:43 AM
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Hey guys!

I'm planning on entering an all classical sonata competition, where I need a fast and slow movement. I've already got a slow movement pretty much finished (Clementi Sonata in F# minor), but I still need a contrasting fast movement.


Any suggestions are appriciated.

Matt

Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558640 07/19/08 11:23 AM
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How about the third movement of Mozart 332? (F Major)


Sam
Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558641 07/19/08 11:25 AM
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or maybe the third movement of Haydn B Minor or Beethoven F Major (Op. 10 No. 2)?


Sam
Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558642 07/19/08 11:35 AM
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Debussy20, how does the competition define "classical?" That might help people giving suggestions that the competition would accept.


Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558643 07/19/08 11:44 AM
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The rules:

Quote
Only original, solo piano music of the following composers may be used: Clementi, Kuhlau, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, and the sons of J.S. Bach. For Levels 1 through 4, students may not perform Beethoven sonatas beyond Op. 31, except for Opp. 49 and 79.


Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558644 07/19/08 12:46 PM
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I'm with Sam, the third movement of 332 would be great.

Also consider the first movements of Beethoven Op. 2#2 or Op. 79.


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Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558645 07/19/08 03:37 PM
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Amongst the Mozart sonatas, you might want to consider the first movement (or maybe the finale) of the K. 309 C major Sonata. The work is a big, confident work in the Mannheim style, and is quite effective in my opinion.

Also in the Mannheim style is the first movement of the K. 284 D major Sonata. Another effective, exciting movement IMHO.

If you really want to show your technique, there's always the first movement of Mozart's K. 576 D major Sonata, which is widely regarded as the toughest of all of his piano sonata movements (technically speaking).

The fiery first movement of Beethoven's Op. 7 Eb Sonata is quite effective too.


Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558646 07/19/08 03:48 PM
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Just out of curiosity, what is considered to be a good tempo for both the 3rd mvt of 332 and the first of 576?

Side note: I played the 3rd mvt of 332 for a high school competition before I had any real instruction. Not knowing any better I assumed that playing it as fast as possible was the best way to impress the judges. WRONG! They really disliked my use of a Schirmer score as well.


There is no "try"! Do, or do not. - Yoda
Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558647 07/19/08 03:53 PM
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WildWillie, maybe somewhere around 84-92 per dotted quarter would do nicely, IMHO.


Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558648 07/19/08 03:59 PM
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The first movement of the Beethoven Op. 7 is really quite tough to play at tempo.

I'm a big fan of Beethoven Op. 2 no. 3, but it does get played a lot. Either the first or the last movement would work. I played the last movement in a competition in high school and did very well with it.

Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558649 07/19/08 04:10 PM
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Oh, I have to mention the lively last movement of Beethoven's Op. 27 #1 Eb Sonata as another possibility. This work is a great favorite of mine.


Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558650 07/20/08 09:08 AM
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I recommend the following:
Mozart
A Minor, K. 310, 1st and 3rd movements
C Minor, K. 457, 1st and 3rd movements
These are dark, passionate pieces.

For sunnier pieces, try
D Major, K. 576, 1st and 3rd movements
F Major, K. 533, 1st movement

The following may be a bit easier technically:
C Major, K. 330, 1st movement
C Major, K. 309, 1st and 3rd movements
B flat major, K. 333, 1st movement
G major, K. 283, 1st and 3rd movements
F major, K. 332, 1st and 3rd movements
D Major, K. 311, 1st movement

Among Beethoven’s 32 piano sonatas, there are so many masterpiece to choose from that every pianist should at least listen to all of them. Are you restricted to sonatas up to and including op. 31 (all of these sonatas would be considered to be belonging to Beethoven’s early period)? Of these sonatas, the following are among his most famous stormy minor key works:

#8 in C Minor, op 13, 1st and 3rd movements
#14 in C Sharp minor, op. 27 no. 2, 3rd movement (among the most difficult pieces on this list from a technical standpoint)
#17, op 31 #2 in D Minor, 1st and 3rd movements

For sunnier works in a major key, try
#15, op. 28 in D major, 1st and 4th movements
#18 in E flat major, op. 31 no. 3, 1st and 4th movements
#7 in D major, op. 10 no. 3, 1st movement
#11 in B flat major, op. 22, 1st movement

Are you allowed to choose from Beethoven sonatas after op. 31? If so, this opens up a treasure trove from his middle and late periods.

Listen to recordings of as many of these pieces as you can and pick one which fits your technique and is musically appealing to you. Some things you may want to consider: Do you want a dark, passionate movement (typically in a minor key) or a lighter, sunnier piece (typically in a major key)? Does the form of the movement (e.g. sonata form, rondo, other) matter? What level of difficulty is most appropriate for you?

Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558651 07/20/08 10:01 AM
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My teacher played a TON of Beethoven sonatas right after college and ever since I brought my sets of them, she's had this giant grin on her face laugh . I'd love to get a Beethoven.

I think any of the Beethoven sonatas are allowed.

I'm looking for something that would accompany the very dark and dramatic sob-story of the slow Clementi sonata. Would this sonata need to be a little lighter?

Matt

Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558652 07/20/08 10:57 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Debussy20:
My teacher played a TON of Beethoven sonatas right after college and ever since I brought my sets of them, she's had this giant grin on her face laugh . I'd love to get a Beethoven.

I think any of the Beethoven sonatas are allowed.

I'm looking for something that would accompany the very dark and dramatic sob-story of the slow Clementi sonata. Would this sonata need to be a little lighter?

Matt
Beethoven - Op.31 no.3

Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558653 07/20/08 11:56 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Debussy20:
My teacher played a TON of Beethoven sonatas right after college and ever since I brought my sets of them, she's had this giant grin on her face laugh . I'd love to get a Beethoven.

I think any of the Beethoven sonatas are allowed.

I'm looking for something that would accompany the very dark and dramatic sob-story of the slow Clementi sonata. Would this sonata need to be a little lighter?

Matt
In that case, you should also consider the 3rd movement of Beethoven's piano sonata #26 in E flat major, op. 81 a. It is a sunny, happy movement representing Beethoven's joy at being reunited with a good friend (archduke Rudolph) after an absence.

It was written around the same time as his 5th piano concerto, also in the same key, and there are similarities between this movement and the 3rd movement of the 5th piano concerto.

The outer movements of the Waldstein sonata may also be possibilities. These movements are quite technically challenging by the standards of classical sonatas.

Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558654 07/20/08 12:29 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Otis S:
[...]I think any of the Beethoven sonatas are allowed.

In that case, you should also consider the 3rd movement of Beethoven's piano sonata #26 in E flat major, op. 81 a. It is a sunny, happy movement representing Beethoven's joy at being reunited with a good friend (archduke Rudolph) after an absence.

Read the rules! Read the rules!

No Beethoven Sonata beyond Op. 31 is allowed for this competition, except for Opp 49 and 79.

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558655 07/20/08 01:45 PM
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I'm studying the Op.28 right now and it's fantastic.



Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558656 07/20/08 08:43 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by BruceD:
Read the rules! Read the rules!

No Beethoven Sonata beyond Op. 31 is allowed for this competition, except for Opp 49 and 79.

Regards,
BruceD:

If you are referring to the rules posted by Piano*Dad* earlier in this thread, then I believe that your interpretation of them is incorrect. The restriction you cite only applies to levels 1-4.

Debussy20 would know much better than either of us what pieces he is allowed to play at the competition which is why I asked him whether he could pick movements from later Beethoven piano sonatas before suggesting any movements from sonatas after op. 31.

Re: Help me pick a classical sonata!
#558657 07/20/08 09:10 PM
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Gosh, sorry. Piano*Dad is a little more knowledgable about this competition as his son (Piano*Son) has actually competed in it a few times. And he's right, no later than Op. 31. Sorry, I wasn't reading very carefully. laugh

Matt


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