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Can someone tell me the value of a 1/2 rest in 3/4 time. While we are on the subject the value for a whole rest, too.

Well you won't see a whole rest in 3/4 time.

The value of the half rest is the same as if it were in 4/4 time. The half rest is worth two beats.

More correctly (but meaning the same in this case), a half rest is as long as a half note, or two quarter notes. It is half a whole rest.

A half rest is only one beat in alla breve.

nm

Half rests aren't used in 3/4 time. You always write two quarter rests.

Whole rests are used, but they take the value of one full measure.

On the contrary, 'half-note' (what I would call minim) rests are used in 3/4 time, and represent 2 beats. Same as using a quarter-note (crotchet) rest in 3/8 time.

As you say, a full-note = semibreve rest in 3/4 simply means the entire measure/bar is silent.

John,

I have to concur with Kreisler on this one: it is indeed convention not to use a minim (half-note) rest when in 3/4 time, as it might be confusing to the eye/brain. Have a look at bar 4 (and last 8 bars as well) of the following:

http://sheetmusicarchive.net/compositions_b/maz17_4.pdf

... which is the same in my Henle edition.

-Michael B.

I don't see a problem with writing a half rest in 3/4 time if the accent is on the first or second beat.

I compose a lot and my music is pretty straighforward but I don't shy away from using half rests in 3/4.

Well I can find examples of both usages (minim or 2 crotchet rests in 3/4) in the music I have to hand.

In 3/8 it does seem to be more usual to use 2 quaver restss than one crotchet, although again I can find examples of both.

And in 6/8 it's even worse with my edition of Mahler's Des Knaben Wunderhorn using both 2 quaver rests or 1 crotchet rest interchangeably within the same piece. Also I see both dotted crotchet or crotchet - quaver rest used interchangeably, but in 6/8 it always seems to be a dotted minim rest for a full bar rest.

Perhaps someone here who's done music engraving/editing can confirm if there is a current convention. The music notation software that I use allows both and doesn't seem to mind whichever I use.

John,

Over twenty years ago, before the days of notation software, when writing out scores or individual parts of arrangements/compositions for ensembles, choirs, etc, I'd never use a minim rest in triple time. I can't remember where I heard it, but it is/was simply a convention not to do so. Perhaps only some publishers follow it (such as Henle and others), but I believe they are in the majority. At least that's my impression from what I've seen over the years.

Talking of compound times signatures, Henle does not even use dotted rests to denote a full pulse pause, nor consolidate them (in the same spirit as using a minim rest in 3/4 time). This can lead to some odd situations, e.g. at the end of the 2nd movt of Beethoven's Op22 (a gorgeous piece in a very slow 9/8 time), after the final crotchet length chord, there is a quaver rest, followed by a crotchet rest, then a quaver rest, then a crotchet rest and then a quaver rest before the final double bar line.

in 6/8 it always seems to be a dotted minim rest for a full bar rest.

Hmm. I am fairly certain that the common convention for a full bar's tacet is a semibreve rest, regardless of the metre, simple or common. It certainly is in orchestral parts.

-Michael B.

I agree with you that use of a minim in 3/4 time is definitely far less common than use of 2 crotchets. And yes the use of a semibreve rest to signify a whole bar rest seems to be the norm although again I have plenty of music with dotted minim rests.

But now that I've started looking I see more and more dotted crotchets in 6/8 time, though quite often in choral music (of which I have a lot - that's also where a lot of minim rests in 3/4 are - could be a hint here?)

John,

Well, I think I can state with some certainty that of the fairly extensive Henle, Schott, Durand, B&H[1], ABRSM, Peters, etc., library of sheet music on the shelves around me, none ever uses a minim rest in 3/4 time, so that's as good as a convention for me. Perhaps other scores (choral[2] or otherwise) might differ in style and presentation, but I still believe Kreisler's statements to be true for what is accepted common practice, at least for instrumental music.

Cheers,

Michael B.
[1] Boosey and Hawkes rather than Benson and Hedges, obviously.
[2] I try to keep as little vocal sheet music in the house as possible, thereby greatly reducing the danger of anyone attempting to sing in the vicinity .

Thank you, all!

Or Breitkopf und Härtel.

BDB:
Or Breitkopf und Härtel.

Indeed, although being a Brit (and an ex-flautist), B&H will always mean Boosey and Hawkes to me at first glance.

-Michael B.

Interesting notation guide:

http://www.coloradocollege.edu/Dept/MU/musicpress/engraving.html


And the page most applicable to our discussion:

http://www2.coloradocollege.edu/dept/mu/Musicpress/rests.html

That's very interesting. I'd read somewhere that the rests should be used such that *if* a bar can be divided into two equal halves, then the rest should never span those two halves. Which is slightly different to the guidance given here.

Also I see the use of a quarter/crotchet rest in 6/8 or 9/8 time very frequently - it's all through my Breitkopf & Hartel edition of Des Knaben Wunderhorn. The idea of a dotted minim in 9/8 is pretty funny though - not quite sure why...

I just saw Dave Brubeck perform his Blue Rondo a la Turk Sunday. As that starts 9/8 = 2/8 + 2/8 + 2/8 + 3/8, quarter rests would be just fine. There are usually exceptions to guidelines.

It's funny that a lot of great music students and professors can't even agree on something as simple as this!

American music publishers DO agree on this, and so do most European publishers.

The people who disagree are in a very small minority.