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Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556245
06/09/07 08:40 PM
06/09/07 08:40 PM
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LiszThalberg Offline OP
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Hey guys. I'm having a problem with the Eb. Bb and F in measures 39,40 in the left hand. I simply can't stretch that far.

[Linked Image]

Should I leave out a note? If so which one.

Thanks

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Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556246
06/09/07 09:43 PM
06/09/07 09:43 PM
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BruceD Offline
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All those notes are required; you can't - or at least, shouldn't - leave out any. If you must, then you'll have to "roll" those bass chords.

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190
Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556247
06/09/07 09:58 PM
06/09/07 09:58 PM
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pianojerome Offline
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Try leaving out the F on top, and see what it sounds like.

If it still sounds good without the F, then leave out the F... you can only do what you can do.

And as Bruce suggested, as another option, maybe try rolling it (with the F) -- but I imagine Grieg might have had drums in mind for a wedding day, and rolling the chords might not give that drum effect. Leaving out the F, you're left with Eb-Bb... a perfect fifth... typical in folk music to simulate drums.

But try it several different ways, and see what you like.


Sam
Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556248
06/09/07 10:28 PM
06/09/07 10:28 PM
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kevinatcausa Offline
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My score (Alfred edition) suggests one option for small hands being to leave out the top F on the lower groups of notes and the bottom Eb on the higher groups.

Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556249
06/09/07 10:37 PM
06/09/07 10:37 PM
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Pacific Northwest, US.
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argerichfan Offline
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Matt, you'll be all of 15 in several days. Good on you for learning this adorable piece of music, and perhaps within a few years your hands may be able to take those stretches. Do you think your hands are typical for your age? I wasn't able to take those chords properly until I was 16 or so, and even then, I could only just take them "unprepared".

You've had great advice from BruceD and Sam. Enjoy, and by all means do learn some of the other Lyric Pieces. Such riches. Cheers! smile


Jason
Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556250
06/10/07 09:16 AM
06/10/07 09:16 AM
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LiszThalberg Offline OP
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Jason - As much as I'd love to be 15 on the 15th (with the drivers permit less than 6 months out of reach laugh )... I'll be turning 14 next week.

Sam - you're right this is the drum section.

All the notes are important but I'm still not sure what to do. I'll have to ask my teacher next week.

Thanks for your help,
Matt

Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556251
06/10/07 11:02 AM
06/10/07 11:02 AM
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keyboardklutz Offline
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you should have a loose enough wrist/arm to quickly arpeggiate them (roll, as BruceD says).


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556252
06/10/07 11:37 AM
06/10/07 11:37 AM
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apianostudent Offline
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The F in the middle of measures 40 can be played with the right hand. It may feel ackward, but I think its doable at the tempo. However, the downside is that the effect of the chord will be different if the previous and latter groupings of left hand chord are arpeggiated.

Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556253
06/10/07 12:56 PM
06/10/07 12:56 PM
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Republic of Macedonia
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ecm Offline
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Wait a sec, why leave out the F?
You can't make it?

Sorry if I am ignorant a bit, I'm used to more terrible than this because of my (thank god!!) big hands.

Maybe play it beneath? next to Es.

Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556254
06/10/07 02:35 PM
06/10/07 02:35 PM
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Posts: 395
Enebyberg Sweden
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Robert Kenessy Offline
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I would switch the e flat and the f, so instead of the ninth you can't reach, you get a seventh which you can. Then you still play all the notes needed for the harmony.


Robert Kenessy

.. it seems to me that the inherent nature [of the piano tone] becomes really expressive only by means of the present tendency to use the piano as a percussion instrument - Béla Bartók, early 1927.
Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556255
06/10/07 03:56 PM
06/10/07 03:56 PM
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keyboardklutz Offline
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Robert, what about the bass line?


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556256
06/11/07 01:41 AM
06/11/07 01:41 AM
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keyboardklutz Offline
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Debussy20, I thought you might like some advice on the big chords at the end of this section - make sure your wrist goes down on the semi-breves (whole notes) and a big up on each chord. Here is my demonstration . Remember big, big, ups.

I looked at some others on youtube. My comments are:


tries to go down on the chords


plays really well
but his back seems too bent. If you haven't heard me say - point your breastbone to where the ceiling meets the wall

plays well but speeds up

plays very accurately but sadly such stiff wrists! When he gets to the chords you can see his body just aching to go up. But he's not allowing it.


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556257
06/11/07 02:02 AM
06/11/07 02:02 AM
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Posts: 22,291
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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keyboardklutz:

It is interesting to note that what may appear uncomfortable to some turns out to be relatively comfortable for others, and certainly doesn't seem to harm their interpretation in any way. Compare Gould and Rubinstein at the piano, yet each in his own way reached the summit of his art.

Since you mention physical position in refering to one of the videos, I would find it very difficult to play in the position that you show in your demonstration. Your elbows are obviously well below the level of the keyboard, the line from your elbow to the wrist is an upward slope and you need to bend your wrist to activate the keys. I wonder what sort of tone control you would have on an acoustic piano.

This is an observation, not a criticism.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556258
06/11/07 02:21 AM
06/11/07 02:21 AM
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keyboardklutz Offline
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BruceD, I'm I afraid I don't go on looks. The swan neck thing in the left is because my wrist can't descend below/even with the keys as it would like to. Any lower and my palm would hit the white notes. If you use flat fingers and sit low that's what happens. I wouldn't play Bach, Mozart like that.


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556259
06/11/07 03:36 AM
06/11/07 03:36 AM
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Ragnhild Offline
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I'm afraid I have no advice to give you, My hands are too small for the "Wedding Day" too...

Just wanted to say I am happy that you have chosen to play Grieg, and remind you that there are 65 other lyric pieces thumb

Ragnhild


Trying to play the piano:
http://www.box.net/public/dbr23ll03e
Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556260
06/11/07 03:44 AM
06/11/07 03:44 AM
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keyboardklutz Offline
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Ragnhild, your hands are not too small. You just arpeggiate. In fact it's very affective in the bar debussy20 is working on.


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556261
06/11/07 11:12 AM
06/11/07 11:12 AM
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LiszThalberg Offline OP
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Thank you keyboardklutz - the first thing I did when I got the piece on thursday was to work on and memorize the big chord and octaves sections.

I'm working with another teacher this summer told me in the first lesson that she was a perfectionist. For the first ten minutes of the lesson we discussed the technique for correctly playing octaves.

Thank you all for your help.

One more thing, the last chord in my edition has an an alternate ending in dynamics. It seems the editor thought that a very quiet chord at the end would re-create the wedding procession dying away. Would dynamic do you use for the last chord?

Matt

Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556262
06/11/07 01:51 PM
06/11/07 01:51 PM
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keyboardklutz Offline
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Debussy20, if you've gained the skill of octave playing (drop the weight/muscle then flop between every octave) then you'll not only play very well but also safely.

My edition is the Dover reprint of the first edition. The very last chord is FFF. So that's what Grieg wanted.


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

Re: Wedding Day at Troldhaugen - Help #556263
06/14/07 09:14 PM
06/14/07 09:14 PM
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LiszThalberg Offline OP
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keyboardklutz, you really helped me out alot on this piece.

thanks everybody,
Matt


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