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Joined: Jan 2007
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I am researching esotericsm in music and interested in the opinion of pianists specifically. My current theme is the influence of Theosophy on composers. Both Scriabin and Holst were affiliated with Theosophy, but this becomes apparent in two very discrepant ways (to my untrained ears). I am trying to understand how a technically trained musician might juxtapose - if at all - these composers inspite of their similar world view, in terms of how successful they were in setting an objective spiritual mood or conveying general spiritual understandings. I am thinking, e.g. of Holst's Savitri and RgVeda Poems, as well as the Planets, in comparison to Scriabin's piano sonatas, Divine Poems and Prometheus. From a psychological angle, all of which are not meant as products of self- expression, but rather more didactic. Obviously their vastly discrepant biographies and aptitudes and dispositions are notable. But for me both have more in common with eachother than with, say, Wagner (who also happens to NOT be a Theosophist). Have we too many preconceptions in listening? Do we really hear composers' religious and political views in their music (aside the overt examples of Shostakovich, Beethoven's Eroica or Emperor Conc. or Gregorian chants) or can we actually hear what lies behind their opinions - as a Theosophist might say: their Higher Selves as impersonal instruments? Any casual or more contemplative responses from more, or less, technical, musical brains would be very valuable to me. Thank you.
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Joined: May 2006
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I would imagine one of the difficulties in "connecting the dots" between the two is the disparate nature of their fame in the musical world. Pianists rarely study Holst, while orchestral and choral musicians rarely study Scriabin in-depth. Not to mention each individual composer's evolution through the years (the "later" Scriabin versus the "early" one) is often occupying our minds...
I will admit that I'm trying to find the esoteric, lunatic fringe in late Scriabin; knowing a little of the historical context helped fuel that. Would one have "figured it out" without prior historical knowledge? I think it comes across clearly enough in the music that most observant people would eventually figure out the meaning of it in very general terms.
Best of luck putting your ideas together for this-- it seems to be a daunting, but unique project.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 547
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isisembarks,
I am very interested by your topic, and while I cannot claim to know much about Holst, I have researched Scriabin for several years now.
In his case, I think a comparison of earlier and later music does reveal a certain shift towards oneness, and on the surface at least this satisfies your question. Scriabin's late piano sonatas become very economical with material and very condensed in structure. While some say that because he retained the classical sonata form for the most part, he was stuck in earlier forms and limited himself, I personally feel that the sonata form is philosophically a good representation of some aspects of his spirituality, containing 2 themes (male and female) that become one.
The fantastic idea that there is a human religion, that all religions and especially what they all have in common, are based on some underlying truths, was probably of great interest to Scriabin. He was less and less centric to his own social paradigm as he got older, and this is reflected in his ideas about the Mysterium.
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Joined: May 2005
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This bit of trivia may perhaps be of interest: Bruno Walter became deeply interested in Anthroposophy late in life. Though we think of him as a conductor he did compose early in his career.
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
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