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Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55022
02/04/06 03:26 PM
02/04/06 03:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 97
Manassas, VA
Jenn M Offline OP
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Jenn M  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Manassas, VA
I've seen the threads about Suzuki pianos in Costco, but today while shopping there were Kawai and Hobart M. Cable pianos, both upright and grand, and Roland digital pianos -- 2 days only sale! I recognized the name brands and when I asked, sure enough it was Jordan Kitts selling these pianos.

I looked up older threads and saw that this has been discussed before somewhat. Having just shopped at JKM this past month, and tried out some Kawais, I thought I would just test them out.

First of all, the sound is AWFUL in the warehouse. How can anyone buy a piano for sound there?...they can't. I think it's just for looks...people who want a "grand" piece of furniture in their living room. There was a GM, GE and RX. But I'm wondering if these were the models they couldn't sell on their showroom floors. The touch was so mushy...didn't feel at all like the Kawais I tried. Sound (from what I could make out) was a bit tinny, lots of resonance and not clear tones. I'm not familiar with Cable pianos, but the ones I tried weren't impressive, either. The prices were lower...RX was about $18K. I can't remember the others.

I'm just floored at such marketing...actually, quite insulted. I know it seems you can buy anything from Costco, but it's just so crass. I take my music too seriously to buy my piano that way!

So, does Jordan Kitts sell the models they can't seem to move elsewhere at these sales? They had just finished a George Mason University piano sale just last month...no wonder why they are the biggest...they are aiming for the masses.

Is it floor models only? Do they still have their standard warranties attached since it's through Costco? I was so curious, but the salesmen were swamped, so I couldn't ask. There were many "SOLD" signs already on the pianos....I just can't believe how many people would jump on an opportunity like that!

My estimations of that dealer had diminished already, but it has really plummeted seeing that circus.

My dh is all hung up about the SuperBowl, as he is a HUGE Steelers fan. While he's talking football, I'm in my own world of pianos. I kept saying during shopping and lunch: "I can't believe Jordan Kitts is selling pianos in Costco. I'm so glad we went with the other dealer!"

Tuesday is my big delivery day. Can't Wait! whome

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Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55023
02/04/06 04:14 PM
02/04/06 04:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,114
El Cajon, California
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Steve Ramirez Offline
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El Cajon, California
You're being a little hard on this retailer. It takes lots of sales to keep a retail business afloat. In my area the most established piano dealer, the one with the only Steinway franchise, does a "University Sale" at least once a year at San Diego State. I don't think this activity adversely affects their reputation in the community even though this type of hard selling event is sleazier than a merchant having a sale inside a Costco warehouse.

Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55024
02/04/06 04:56 PM
02/04/06 04:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,941
Florida
LisztAddict Offline
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Florida
There are lots of rich folks out there that can play piano very little or none at all. But they have the money and would love to have a GLOSSY grand piano as a piece of furniture in the grand living room.

Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55025
02/04/06 05:10 PM
02/04/06 05:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 97
Manassas, VA
Jenn M Offline OP
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Jenn M  Offline OP
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Posts: 97
Manassas, VA
Quote
Originally posted by Steve Ramirez:
You're being a little hard on this retailer. It takes lots of sales to keep a retail business afloat. In my area the most established piano dealer, the one with the only Steinway franchise, does a "University Sale" at least once a year at San Diego State. I don't think this activity adversely affects their reputation in the community even though this type of hard selling event is sleazier than a merchant having a sale inside a Costco warehouse.
Yes, I am being a little hard....they caught me on the wrong day! This is the Steinway franchise on the East Coast, too. They do several university sales a year, different universities.

Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55026
02/04/06 05:34 PM
02/04/06 05:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 11
Maryland, USA
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Piano_hack Offline
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Maryland, USA
My two cents: It's hard to beat Jordan-Kitt's for crass marketing. In the past 8 years, I have bought 2 pianos in the Washington DC area. On multiple attempts to sample products in J-K's showrooms, and at their special sales (at the Kennedy Center), I have been overwhelmed by the generall sliminess, pushiness, and cluelessness of their staff. I can only assume this is company policy since I've experienced it in locations in Maryland, Virginia and DC. J-K's target audience is NOT musicians. It is people with money who are willing to be sold a bill of goods, rather than the right instrument for their needs. Needless to say I bought both of my instruments elsewhere, where the staff helped me to make decisions based upon my requirements and not their sales quotas or profit margins.

Not bitter - just grateful to have a forum to vent my irritation with those people.

Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55027
02/04/06 05:47 PM
02/04/06 05:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 678
Herndon, VA
kokomo61 Offline
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Posts: 678
Herndon, VA
I'd have to agree on Jordan-Kitt's. I was in the market for a digital a couple years ago, and got nothing but hard sell, along with downright bad information on product lines....(e.g., if I didn't buy one from them, I was getting an inferior quality product). I ended up getting a Roland MP-500 from a professional line music store, which was the exact same piano (minus the fake woodgrain finish) that they were selling for twice the price....

I've been in a couple times since then, to look at grands, and the process is always to size me up on how much money I want to 'invest' in my kids' future happiness, vs. getting the right piano for me. I'm buying the piano for me, in any case - the fact that my daughter plays is simply a bonus.

I had a good visit at Rick Jones pianos a few weeks ago - zero pressure, and (mostly) good info. I went to Piano World in Fairfax today, and got a good overview of their pianos (full-line Yamaha dealer, with some Petrof's). No pressure, and got a reasonable overview of their pianos - enough to know that I don't want a G-series.....That C-3 was pretty sweet, though.


Estonia 190, #6098
Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55028
02/04/06 05:48 PM
02/04/06 05:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 97
Manassas, VA
Jenn M Offline OP
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Jenn M  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 97
Manassas, VA
Quote
Originally posted by LisztAddict:
There are lots of rich folks out there that can play piano very little or none at all. But they have the money and would love to have a GLOSSY grand piano as a piece of furniture in the grand living room.
It's every person's right and yes, there's nothing wrong with with selling the pianos there, and discounting them. But it sure is distasteful to me! All the hours you spend practicing, learning to play music and then searching for the right piano, researching, trying to make the right decision -- and then you see someone play a few notes and suddenly the proud owner of a sale priced shiny ebony grand...makes you scratch your head and wonder "Am I doing something wrong?"

Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55029
02/04/06 06:24 PM
02/04/06 06:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
San Francisco
F
FogVilleLad Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
San Francisco
Jenn M,

I agree with LisztAddict, except that I would leave out the word "rich."

As more people come to PianoWorld which, IMHO, is the premier piano site, they will learn that the differences between instruments makes it likely that they can find one that is right for them---and that fits their budget (as that tends to expand during their search;-) But sites like PW and the information that's available on them are a recent phenomenon.

Many people come to PW not having a clue, and become delighted with the knowledge and encouragement that they receive---and with the decision they make. Unfortunately many more people don't come to PW---with completely predictable results.

PS, a fifty incher right out of the blocks! Kiddo when you go piano shopping, you go ***piano shopping***.

All the best,
DavidH

Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55030
02/04/06 08:31 PM
02/04/06 08:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 97
Manassas, VA
Jenn M Offline OP
Full Member
Jenn M  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 97
Manassas, VA
Quote
Originally posted by FogVilleLad:
PS, a fifty incher right out of the blocks! Kiddo when you go piano shopping, you go ***piano shopping***.
laugh What can I say? We mean business...no entry level stuff here. We're in for the long haul and want to make beautiful music. This was our compromise for the grand.

Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55031
02/04/06 09:18 PM
02/04/06 09:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,173
Washington metro
Piano Again Offline
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Piano Again  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,173
Washington metro
This is kind of OT, but I had a weird experience with JK's, too. A few years ago, because my boss knew I had musical training, I was asked to look at pianos for my workplace at the time (a well-known law school, actually). They wanted to buy a new upright for a small auditorium where they had occasional performances and rehearsals of an amateur chorus. I went to a JK store near where I lived, wasn't treated that well and wasn't that impressed, but I was just gathering info at that point anyway. Then my boss asked me to make another shopping trip with the guy who was in the charge of the chorus, since he was the one who'd be using the piano, so we went to a couple of places, including a different JK's. Totally by coincidence, the salesperson who helped us there was someone I'd gone to music school with, and he was much nicer and more helpful than the other salesperson had been. The chorus director chose a Boston piano from what they had in stock there, and I gave my boss the information so they could make a decision -- they ended up buying the Boston because the chorus guy liked it. A few days later, I got an angry phone call from the salesperson at the first J-K store -- I guess they had my name in the system somehow, and she was mad that the school had bought the piano from a different store and she hadn't gotten a commission. I told her I wasn't the person who made the decisions and left it at that. But it upset me, and I've never wanted to go to one of their stores again.


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Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55032
02/05/06 12:37 PM
02/05/06 12:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,941
Florida
LisztAddict Offline
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LisztAddict  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,941
Florida
Quote
Originally posted by Jenn M:
and then you see someone play a few notes and suddenly the proud owner of a sale priced shiny ebony grand...makes you scratch your head and wonder "Am I doing something wrong?"
Yes, you are doing something wrong. You try out pianos at Costco warehouse. laugh ha But you know you are in the selected 1% group that can play on different pianos and are able to tell the difference in touch and sound. Costco pianos are for the other 99%.

Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55033
02/05/06 12:46 PM
02/05/06 12:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,862
Kansas
apple* Offline
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Posts: 19,862
Kansas
unfortunately.. that 99% - the people who haven't a clue, are often the bread and butter of the piano stores.

We have a professional hawker - a slight, cute, little man with a sugary voice and perfumed, permantly curled hair and a sculpted 'do' who hovers over the Costco digitals..

i've seen him do the super sharp knife demonstrations at another big box store.


sigh.....


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, ├Ľun (apple in Estonian)
Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55034
02/05/06 12:56 PM
02/05/06 12:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 97
Manassas, VA
Jenn M Offline OP
Full Member
Jenn M  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 97
Manassas, VA
Quote
Originally posted by LisztAddict:
But you know you are in the selected 1% group that can play on different pianos and are able to tell the difference in touch and sound. Costco pianos are for the other 99%.
Well hurrah! I at long last belong to an elite group of individuals! laugh

Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55035
02/05/06 12:58 PM
02/05/06 12:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 97
Manassas, VA
Jenn M Offline OP
Full Member
Jenn M  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 97
Manassas, VA
Quote
Originally posted by apple*:
We have a professional hawker - a slight, cute, little man with a sugary voice and perfumed, permantly curled hair and a sculpted 'do' who hovers over the Costco digitals..

i've seen him do the super sharp knife demonstrations at another big box store.
ROFLOL! Thanks for that superb picture!

Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55036
02/05/06 02:01 PM
02/05/06 02:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,089
Virginia
Copper Offline
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Copper  Offline
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Posts: 1,089
Virginia
Jordan Kitts isn't so bad. I've done some shopping there and I thought the people I dealt with were helpful.

I didn't buy there, but it wasn't because of anything they did wrong. As far as I can tell they are a full service dealer with enough happy customers to keep them in business for a while. Because they are full service I'd expect them to cost more.

I don't see anything wrong with selling pianos outside their showrooms, I think that is part of being full service and making money. I assume they can give a better price at Costco or the "University Sale", and reach a market they couldn't find in their showroom.

I can't really give an endorsement to JKM, but in my limited experience they were OK.


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Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55037
02/05/06 04:29 PM
02/05/06 04:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 678
Herndon, VA
kokomo61 Offline
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Herndon, VA
This isn't a pile-on for Jordan-Kitt's, but perhaps some useful information for people who want to shop for their new pianos (they are the East Coast's largest Steinway shop...) I'd use the analogy of going to the local Mercedes dealership. They're got a good product, they know it, and people will pay the prices that these products warrant....that includes people who really want the product for its virtues (Steinway and Mercedes both make very good products), but just as many people (if not more) buy these products to impress other people, even if they don't take advantage or value the product for its full benefits....

And, the best way to shop for these pianos (if you want to shop @ JK), is to be knowledgeable, assertive, and not easily pressured. There are good salespeople and bad ones - if they know you're a qualified prospect with the ability to buy the product, they'll back down on the pressure if they know they're going to lose you to another dealer or another salesperson at a different store....it's not always fun to deal with, but it's the reality of dealerships with a lock on a particular brand......if you want a new Steinway in the DC area, you're going to have to buy from JK. Just be knowledgeable on what your alternatives are, and don't hesitate to let the salesperson know that you're willing to walk if you can't get the right deal (one that works for you, and still makes money for them).


Estonia 190, #6098
Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55038
02/05/06 04:31 PM
02/05/06 04:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 97
Manassas, VA
Jenn M Offline OP
Full Member
Jenn M  Offline OP
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Posts: 97
Manassas, VA
thumb kokomo61!

Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55039
02/06/06 02:35 PM
02/06/06 02:35 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 340
Chicago, Illinois
NorthAmerican Offline
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Chicago, Illinois
Jenn M,

I have to say that I am troubled by your post, and have been since I saw it when it was fresh a couple of days ago.

You describe yourself as having been "floored" by the marketing of pianos at CostCo, and you say that you take your music too seriously to shop for a piano that way; that's all well and good, but you also say, "...I thought I would just test them out."

"First of all," you say, "the sound is AWFUL in the warehouse. How can anyone buy a piano for sound there?...they can't."

Again, a good point. But why did you go on to offer an assessment of the sound? You say, "Sound (from what I could make out) was a bit tinny, lots of resonance and not clear tones."

Finally, I think it is unfair to make a comment like the following: "But I'm wondering if these were the models they couldn't sell on their showroom floors." I think that is a below-the-belt blow.

I suspect that there are thousands of people nationwide -- no, hundreds of thousands -- who would feel somewhat intimidated if they were to enter a piano dealership. They don't feel that way shopping at CostCo, and your own post bears that out: you say that there were "Sold" signs on a lot of the pianos there.

Perhaps it would have been better, when you saw what you thought were good quality pianos being sold at CostCo, to simply have lifted your nose in the air, sniffed in disdain, and walked away.

Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55040
02/06/06 03:08 PM
02/06/06 03:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 746
Midwest of the great USA
M
mamma2my3sons Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 746
Midwest of the great USA
I'm waiting for Home Shopping Network to start hawking pianos. I see nothing wrong with Costco selling them. Maybe a parent will see one at Costco, buy on impulse & it will change a childs life. (looking back I know playing clarinet changed mine) The more music, pianos & other instruments in homes, the better. Don't think it necessarily means buying a piano at Cosco is only for someone who wants something pretty to look at. ...There are people out there with champagne tastes & beer budgets. There is at least 1 (probably more) person that posts here with music degree/major background that bought a budget/entry level Chinese piano because they thought it sounded good. Quality likely no better or worse than Costco, only theirs came from a dealer!

However more often than not, it takes quite a bit of "dickering" to get a comparable piano at a dealers for the same price as Costco sells 'em. Many people also just don't want to dicker or don't realize the possible pitfalls.

North American makes a good point too about some being intimidated by piano stores.

Re: Costco Piano Sale -- little rant #55041
02/06/06 03:34 PM
02/06/06 03:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 97
Manassas, VA
Jenn M Offline OP
Full Member
Jenn M  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 97
Manassas, VA
Quote
Originally posted by NorthAmerican:
You describe yourself as having been "floored" by the marketing of pianos at CostCo, and you say that you take your music too seriously to shop for a piano that way; that's all well and good, but you also say, "...I thought I would just test them out."

"First of all," you say, "the sound is AWFUL in the warehouse. How can anyone buy a piano for sound there?...they can't."

Again, a good point. But why did you go on to offer an assessment of the sound? You say, "Sound (from what I could make out) was a bit tinny, lots of resonance and not clear tones."

Finally, I think it is unfair to make a comment like the following: "But I'm wondering if these were the models they couldn't sell on their showroom floors." I think that is a below-the-belt blow.

I suspect that there are thousands of people nationwide -- no, hundreds of thousands -- who would feel somewhat intimidated if they were to enter a piano dealership. They don't feel that way shopping at CostCo, and your own post bears that out: you say that there were "Sold" signs on a lot of the pianos there.

Perhaps it would have been better, when you saw what you thought were good quality pianos being sold at CostCo, to simply have lifted your nose in the air, sniffed in disdain, and walked away.
Geez...you're pretty rough on me. Sorry it's been eating away at you all weekend. I just stated an opinion, and yes, you're allowed to differ. You must be a dealer to raise such a ruckus. I'm not going into battle, but a few points:

If you read my post, I had tried out the pianos at Jordan Kitts Music already. I was comparing apples to apples -- supposedly the same models as I had tried at their own showroom. I had done it just recently, and was very close to buying from JKM a Kawai piano. I liked the Kawais. I was okay with the salesman. He wasn't sleazy, he was a little diligent, but I was ready to give him the sale. I liked JKM warranty and the fact they had been around for many years. I had been posting on this forum some of my search. I will correct my post and say that I was a bit harsh on JKM about the Costco sales, but I'm not backing down...it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

It surprised me to see the same brand names and from the same dealer in Costco just two weeks later. I thought they only sold Suzuki pianos. Although I couldn't hear perfectly, the touch was EXTREMELY different than what I played in their showrooms, the same models of pianos. And, yes, I admitted, the acoustics in Costco are bad...in saying so I'm giving benefit of the doubt at what I heard, but they didn't sound or feel the same quality as in the showroom. So, I'm not accusing, I'm just asking. Are these the same quality Kawais as they have their showrooms?

And I'm allowed to tickle the ivories just as much as anyone else....

That's all. Me thinks thou dost protest too much...but to each his own opinion.

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