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#546076 - 06/14/05 06:54 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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iamcanadian Offline
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Give it a rest. Ok?


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#546077 - 06/14/05 07:30 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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Opus_Maximus Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by iamcanadian:
Give it a rest. Ok?
Well put. smile

#546078 - 06/14/05 07:36 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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virtuoso418 Offline
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Quote
(p.s. this post was written as a joke to make light of the situation, in case anyone hasn't noticed... har har)
hahahaha, you got a laugh out of me.

#546079 - 06/14/05 10:35 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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Derulux Offline
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After waiting in a long line of screaming fans, they walked up to LangLang to introduce themselves. LangLang grabbed my teachers program out of his hands, scribbled his signature across it and waved him aside. When my teacher protested and tried to introduce himself LangLang said rudely, "I don't have time for you, I already gave you my signature."
That's funny. When I met Lang Lang, he was very polite....

Quote
LangLang behaves like a pop star. Look at what he did on the Leno Show. He only played to please the general public and gave no attention to detail. His giant gestures are to make people who don't know better say, "Wow, he must be really good." I saw a special on him on sixty minutes, and it felt like I was watching a special on MTV or E. It could easily have been 50 cent or Brittany Spears in his place - the difference is that LangLang has real talent. We all can see his incredible technical and musical abilities. However, in his immaturity, he chooses to make a fool of himself. I believe that this may go away as he grows as a performer and as a person.
It's called business. People who DO know better already go to concerts and see performers like Lang Lang on stage. Even you cannot deny his talent (as you said in the above quote).

But Lang Lang is not trying to attract you. You will already naturally be attracted to the music. What Lang Lang is doing is something perhaps three or four pianists in the history of the piano have ever done...he's attracting everybody else. And that requires something a little different than what the classical world is accustomed to.

Quote
As for all the talk about jealousy. Do you all honestly beleive that the people who don't like LangLang only dislike him because they are jealous? Of course we are jealous of him. We are also jealous of Cziffra, Horowitz, Hamelin, Hough, Beroff, etc. but no one is tearing them apart.
Please, I hear people tear Horowitz apart on a regular basis. In fact, you'll probably see it three or four times in the top ten threads of this forum. Same goes for Rubinstein (whom you did not mention), Cliburn (whom you also did not mention), and the rest whom you did...though it's usually the most popular name that gets torn apart the most. wink

Quote
If LangLang was to present himself as a musician - the same way Yundi Li, Thibaudet, and other pianists do - than I believe that none of the animosity towards him would exist.
Yes, but if Lang Lang does that, the classical world will continue to dwindle. The Britney Spears fans will never appreciate classical music, and the 50 cent fans will never have heard of Lang Lang. The "pop" world will dominate, and eventually, decimate the world of classical music.

What Lang Lang is doing is bringing classical music to a better place. Guess what Lang Lang did on the Leno show? He attracted a whole new audience to classical music, who, before the show, probably would never have thought about buying a ticket to see a classical concert. But I'll bet you some of them did buy tickets after the show, and now follow Lang Lang's career at the very least. So, Lang Lang is helping to bring classical music back into the mainstream.

It'll take time, and I'm sure the "true musicians" (whatever that means) will continue to scoff at Lang Lang, but he'll laugh all the way to the bank and the history books. Barring injury or some other "act of God", I'm certain of that.

Quote
What manner of service can your teacher possibly offer Lang Lang who has nothing left to learn in the world of music?
Well, I wouldn't go that far. The day we stop learning is the first worthless day of our lives. wink


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
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#546080 - 06/14/05 11:37 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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Originally posted by Requiem Aeternam:
What manner of service can your teacher possibly offer Lang Lang who has nothing left to learn in the world of music?
1) No Pianist in the world knows everything, and cannot be taught something new - ABSOLUTELY NO-ONE because there are hundreds of years of music, millions of pieces to play, there is no such thing as a Perfect Pianist... It is against the laws of Humanity. You can always get better. Always

2) What does any teacher have to teach Lang Lang???? How about BLOODY EVERYTHING!!!!

If I honestly heard Lang Lang play one piece of Classical Music PROPERLY Just to show that he can do it, I would lay off him. But it's his attitude to take Brilliant works of art and turn it into a shadow of it's former brilliance and screw it around and bash it about and sell it to a bunch of people who just love the fact that he can play fast... and get plenty of moolah from it.

If he wants to bugger up Classical Pieces... let him create his own and BUGGER THEM UP!!!

#546081 - 06/14/05 11:42 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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Nah, you're wrong. Lang Lang's perfect, he has nothing left to learn.


"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."
#546082 - 06/14/05 11:51 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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Reaper, I find your comments puzzling because you posted this previously about David Helfgott (after everyone was bashing him and his Mach 3)

<<
Can we give poor Bloody Helfgott a rest. Talk about someone else for christ sake. All we've had are billions of posts bagging how sh!t David Helfgott is.... He's a pianist just like every other pianist, and has had his great moments, and his bad moments.

Give it a god damn rest and talk about something worthwhile.

Why beat a dead horse.... [Confused]
>>

#546083 - 06/15/05 12:04 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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Derulux Offline
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Quote
Why beat a dead horse.... [Confused]
It's fun? *confused* :p *laughs* wink


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
#546084 - 06/15/05 01:16 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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Requiem, I realize that your post was a joke, but it still missed the point I was making. No, of course my teacher isn't the greatest person the world has ever seen - I wasn't saying that. I was simply making the point that LangLang was too caught up in his ego to give a fellow musician the time of day. And he does have a lot to offer; he has found rare music that a lot of performers have used as encores and on their recordings. I wasn't saying that LangLang needed this, but he was rude before he gave him a chance.

And Derulux, if that is the direction that classical music has to go to survive... I say let it die. The point I was trying to make was that classical music is focused on the music, and pop is focused on the aesthetics. I don't want classical to transfrom into anything resembling pop. LangLang is introducing classical to the rest of the world in the wrong way, I believe.


- Zack -
#546085 - 06/15/05 01:30 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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He finds rare music? What does he dig it up in a treasure chest or something? Or does he sit on google for 8 hours everyday looking at those strange russian websites litered with porn links and free music no one's ever heard of?


"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."
#546086 - 06/15/05 02:20 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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-sigh-

why all LL thread end up in argument? and personal attack? and the argument about how classical music should be known?

nothing is wrong about acting like a pop star, says who classical music should be introduced in certain way? the truth is, classical music is dying, it's not popular, and classical musicians are out of job, if anything that anyone can do that promotes seating in concert hall, promotes people's interests in classical music, it will help us - classical musicicans to make better money, to be more respected.

LL is an eye opener, something new and fresh, something that at least attracted more people to listen and want to know more about classical music, is that all that bad?

Also, for dismissing certain people backstage, I guess you should see that's coming to begin with, list famous people who talk to everyone in the crowd, nicely and patiently. The thing is they are the star, they don't have time for everyone.

#546087 - 06/15/05 02:52 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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chiaying Offline
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When I watched Lang Lang live in concert, I didn't think that his playing warrants such negative remarks. True, he makes excessive unnecessary gestures while playing, and I wouldn't rate him as the most sensitive pianist but his performance was nonetheless an enjoyable experience.

Now... I don't know anything about this Leno performance, but for all its apparent lack of musicality, I don't think it's fair to say that that is a wrong way of promoting classical music. Sure, he could have done better, but then think of artistes like Maxim and Bond girls -- the classical crossover genre desecrates classical music way more than Lang Lang can ever achieve. *That* is what I'd call the Wrong Way. At the least, Lang Lang did something positive in promoting classical music.

Somehow I feel disappointed to hear musicians utter the phrase 'let classical music die'. How can classical music lovers bear to face extinction? Fortunately, there's another direction classical music can go to survive -- not to bring the music down to the level of the general public, but to bring the level of musical appreciation of the general public up to the intellectual level of classical music. Difficult task, but.....

#546088 - 06/15/05 03:34 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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And Derulux, if that is the direction that classical music has to go to survive... I say let it die. The point I was trying to make was that classical music is focused on the music, and pop is focused on the aesthetics. I don't want classical to transfrom into anything resembling pop. LangLang is introducing classical to the rest of the world in the wrong way, I believe.
Then you must not be a fan of Liszt, either. wink


I would have to explain a lot of marketing concepts to get you to understand what Lang Lang accomplished on the Leno show, or at least I presume I would, considering music (and not business) is your life. I make this presumption based on the fact that you'd understand exactly what Lang Lang did, and you would be praising him for it (and not berating him). What he has done has re-introduced classical music to the general public. Who cares what it sounds like on Leno? You do what you have to do in order to get people interested. THEN, when they show up to the concert hall, they experience the "real deal". It's all marketing, selling... and the sad truth is 99.4% of musicians DON'T know how to sell themselves (which is why nobody's ever heard of them). wink


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
#546089 - 06/15/05 03:53 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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Derulux...not knowing how to market ourself as classical musicians, that's so true!! and that is why classical music are dying, and classical musicians are jobless. C

Classical musicians tend to tend to superior themselves from others, think of themselves as elites, I am a classical pianist, I can see the reason why we think we are special because music is hard, and we had put in a lot of hard work into it, and you have to have talent to understand it, but I hate when people put themself out of reach...and hate more when there is someone who try to reach out, and then he was labelled as an bad example of classical musicians.

#546090 - 06/15/05 04:43 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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Hi,
Gosh I wish I had time today to sit here with a bag of popcorn and watch all this mayhem on these Lang Lang threads-some good laughs are to be had by anyone reading this stuff. Back to the studio.....


Rob Mullins
www.planetmullins.com
Recording Artist and Jazz Piano Instructor
#546091 - 06/15/05 05:01 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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Piana Justice Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
Got your attention, didn't I? Thought so.

Many people have complained about how often the Lang debate has gone on, then died, then came back up. I personally don't care, because I relish every opportunity I get to put idiots in their proper place.

Since Lang has emerged, I've formed a rather sweeping opinion of his critics: in general, they are closed-minded, viciously stubborn, vehemently opposed to any form of change of the "music" to which they are accustomed. And these are just the amateur classical music fans. From pianists, both aspiring and professional, I've noticed a particularly disheartening trait: jealousy. They can scream and banter and argue all you want, but their defensiveness only reassures me of my case.

When I witnessed some moron spew some crap about Lang's desecrating Hungarian Rhapsody No.2, I couldn't believe my eyes. What a poor, sad, lost soul. You treat certain pieces and composers as if they were the craftwork of God himself. Have some self-respect. [b]Decide for yourself
what you like and what you don't. Putting a concerto or a composer on a pedestal, a concept that has been a foundation for the case against Lang (he ruined X, I'll never forgive him), is dangerous logically. You're painting a metaphorical bullseye on yourself. Not to mention you just look immature and plain stupid. A piece is just a piece--there are reasons why there are numerous different recordings. And if a bad one comes out, life goes on.

When all the miserable ogres hopped on their computers after Lang's Leno show appearance as I knew they would, I just wanted to gather them in a room and give them a collective slap across the face. People complained, naturally, that there was no musicality in his performance...of Hungarian Rhapsody No.2. Gee whiz, guys, I wonder why that could be. He wasn't trying to move a college-age audience to tears. I think that was evident by his choice of repertoire, don't you? And we all know that when I want to hear emotional music in all its tear-jerking glory, I reach right for Hungarian Rhapsody No.2. I don't know about you guys, but to me, it's just an improvisational showpiece that was showcased to the public in the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" and cartoons. Cartoons. These half-wits really turned on the television to NBC and expected musicality from a cartoon soundtrack? (Wow, they're even loonier, excuse the pun, than I thought.)

The case against Lang's "musicality" is a logical nightmare for the poor soul who ventures to raise it (again) from its grave. "He's not musical," they say. What a crock. What a stubborn, empty, and deliberately vague cop-out. "Lang Lang go Bang Bang," you say. "Lang Lang uses too many gestures." So what? If you don't like it, don't look at him. I have no problem if you don't prefer his manurisms (but if you whine about Lang Lang whilst professing your undying love for Glenn Gould, despite all of his antics, you'd best keep your situation to yourself). But when you get the audacity to try to convince me I shouldn't like him, then you've crossed the line. Nobody has the right to tell another person who is right, and who is wrong. If you had it your way, we'd live in a wacky, oppressive, and probably very boring world. If I want to like Lang Lang, I will. [/b]
amen to dat. true dat. you don't know HOW long i've waited for someone to tell these idiots how the 'COW ATE THE CABBAGE' [as the ol' Southern sayin' goes] when it comes down to the Lang-Lang [or Bang-Bang] debate. it's about doggpone friggin' time. i could careless about Lang-Lang's stage presence, b/c i don't really know him, nor is a fan. i've seen him perform before, and i have to say that he's good, even though i'm not an expert on classical pieces. [i don't intend to get classical training, b/c i'm pretty much content with playing pop music on the iv'ries.]

we've been over this over and over again, and i really wish people would give this a rest, b/c quite frankly, i'm fed up. it's not like their comments [or critisms, better yet,] is gonna change the man. you know what i think this is? it's jealousy. that's what it is. it just goes to show that some people need to GET A LIFE and quit hatin' on someone they don't know. 'don't hate; congragulate', *snaps fingers* like i heard a transvestite say. besides, i've seen more ANNOYING performers in MY time that i just downright LOATHE.

so i say, 'TROLLS, Lang-Lang Bashers, or WHATEVER, WHOEVER the heck you are, leave the man alone and get a life!!! you not gonna change anyone by bashing them! no one cares about that mess!' stop starting these threads, b/c it's pointless! i could careless! maybe he's better than a lot you will EVER be. the man has a gift, and he's only using it to the best of his ablilities by putting all of his heart, soul, mind- and yes, BODY- into his performances. ain't he entitled to mess up a piece and improvise, unlike some of you old fogy-headed people, who lack creativity and *ahem, cough* STAGE PRESENCE?!

for PETE'S SAKE, he's only human, like the rest of us, but with an unspeakable ability to conquer the ivories. just leave it alone, b/c you're only hurtin' your own stupid selves, even though you're entitled to your opinion. there's just some things you keep to yourself, lest it'll get you in trouble. by saying the man's no good on the Piano, simply b/c he doesn't play like YOU, you're only talking about yourself. i mean, GET OVER yoursleves, and get a life, 'cause face the MUSIC, b/c LANG-LANG is BETTER THAN YOU.


[Linked Image]
#546092 - 06/15/05 05:08 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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anor Offline
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after reading all this...

you know what?


I'M BETTER THAN LANG LANG!!!


how'd you like that? hahahaha f f f

[Linked Image]


ss ao lr ue dt on si .u dq ar no on ra qd u. is no td eu rl oa ss
#546093 - 06/15/05 05:12 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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well, then PROVE it, then. if you were really better than him, then you wouldn't have to prove yourself. besides, i don't compare my piano skills to his.


[Linked Image]
#546094 - 06/15/05 06:06 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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Quote
Originally posted by Derulux:
I would have to explain a lot of marketing concepts to get you to understand what Lang Lang accomplished on the Leno show, or at least I presume I would, considering music (and not business) is your life. I make this presumption based on the fact that you'd understand exactly what Lang Lang did, and you would be praising him for it (and not berating him).
:rolleyes: Oh, enlighten me Mr. Buisiness Man.
laugh wink Both my parents are MBA's and my brother is a buisiness/econ major. I get enough lecturing at home.

I am not denying the marketing genius behind LangLang. The man knows how to market himself, obviously, or he wouldn't be as popular as he is.

I am officially going to make this my last post on this topic. The same discussion, as so many have pointed out, has been going on and we are going nowhere. We all have different opinions on the matter and I'm willing leave it at that.


- Zack -
#546095 - 06/15/05 09:50 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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Derulux Offline
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Derulux...not knowing how to market ourself as classical musicians, that's so true!! and that is why classical music are dying, and classical musicians are jobless. C
Yes, I've been seeing that more and more as I look at the classical world. There's really a very simple reason why classical music went under (poor marketing), though that reason is based on a number of complex issues, ranging from simple lack of knowledge to complete arrogance on the part of the "classicists".

Danor- I realize others may not have found the humor in your post, but I laughed. Gracias. wink

Both my parents are MBA's and my brother is a buisiness/econ major. I get enough lecturing at home.
Then you don't need it from my Marketing BS...and then I'm sure you should be well aware of the issues. But take a second look at what's been said...I'm sure you can pull out the basics of what I was getting at. You have, after all, gotten enough lecturing elsewhere. :p wink

Quote
We all have different opinions on the matter and I'm willing leave it at that.
Ah, I don't care if you like or hate Lang Lang. I just want the decision to be well-informed on all sides of the playing field. That's why I don't say things such as, "Like Lang Lang because I do." (Which, I think we can agree, we've seen enough of for several forums...) :p wink


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
#546096 - 06/16/05 01:28 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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Reaper Man Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by anor:
after reading all this...

you know what?


I'M BETTER THAN LANG LANG!!!


how'd you like that? hahahaha f f f

[Linked Image]
GOD BLESS YOU FOR THAT!!! I was waiting for SOMEONE to say it. smile laugh

#546097 - 06/16/05 02:50 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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Yea ok, Lang Lang could use one hand and still beat you in a piano competition.


"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."
#546098 - 06/16/05 05:16 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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***musical princess*** Offline
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What's the big deal about this Lang Lang guy. God, he's only a dude who loves playing the piano. We shouldn't criticize him just, just let him be. He's obviously havin fun and enjoyin what he does. Afterall, isn't that not why we all joined this forum - to celebrate the piano and all the joy it brings us. Some of you guys need to lighten up and get off the poor mans case!


x Caroline x
#546099 - 06/16/05 06:00 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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B Man Offline
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Quote

What's the big deal about this Lang Lang guy
To understand the discussion here, I suggest an experiment.

1. Go to a Michael-Jackson-Fanclub

2. Say something critical, like "but his nose is funny"

3. Listen carefully to the answers of the fans and groupies.

Then come back to this thread and read posting number one.

Everything clear?

#546100 - 06/16/05 06:01 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
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kathyk Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by C.V. Alkan:
Another reason that I don't, at this point in the man's career, care for LangLag:

LangLang behaves like a pop star. Look at what he did on the Leno Show. He only played to please the general public and gave no attention to detail. His giant gestures are to make people who don't know better say, "Wow, he must be really good." I saw a special on him on sixty minutes, and it felt like I was watching a special on MTV or E. It could easily have been 50 cent or Brittany Spears in his place - the difference is that LangLang has real talent. We all can see his incredible technical and musical abilities. However, in his immaturity, he chooses to make a fool of himself. I believe that this may go away as he grows as a performer and as a person.
You raise an interesting point. He may indeed be a complete richardhead. But, if he is exposing the broad public to the beauty of classical music (even if just the schmaltz and bluster of classical music), more power to him. I am so much happier seeing the likes of Lang Lang achieving fame and wealth for his talent than the likes total no-talents like Britney Spears and Christine Aguilero.

#546101 - 06/16/05 06:21 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 537
***musical princess*** Offline
500 Post Club Member
***musical princess***  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 537
Newcastle, England
What is up with you Thomas F. You must either like to totally contradict what someone else says or you are just an idiot. You make it seem that i was being critical of Lang Lang when it was infact the complete opposite. I was sticking up for the poor soul. And please don't patronize me, i fully understand what this thread is about. The 'big deal' i was reffering to was the attitude of all of the close-minded critics... not the man's ability to play the piano.


x Caroline x
#546102 - 06/16/05 10:09 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 429
princessclara2005 Offline
Full Member
princessclara2005  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 429
Dallas, Texas
QUOTE] I am so much happier seeing the likes of Lang Lang achieving fame and wealth for his talent than the likes total no-talents like Britney Spears and Christine Aguilero. [/QB][/QUOTE]

EXACTLY!!

I still don't understand why some classical music lovers or musicians still don't get the picture, and still remains so old schooled, this is not the 18th century, classical music is not the only option people choose to be entertained, it also puzzles me why some classical musicians and music lovers put classical music so superior, after all, it's just one type of music for expression.

LL has done well, at least for popularizing classical music, while others, just watching it dying.

#546103 - 06/16/05 11:08 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,798
JBryan Offline
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JBryan  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,798
Oklahoma City
Perhaps Frank should consider starting a Lang Lang forum. It would make the old Coffee Room look like your grandma's bridge club.


Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness. :t:
#546104 - 06/16/05 12:01 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 340
Rodolpho Portamento Fritzweil Offline
Full Member
Rodolpho Portamento Fritzweil  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 340
shocked mad mad

Quote
Originally posted by ***musical princess***:
What is up with you Thomas F. You must either like to totally contradict what someone else says or you are just an idiot.
mad shocked mad shocked mad

MODERATORS ! MODERATORS ! PERSONAL ATTACK !

So... you registered yesterday and you already started personal insults ! Way to go !

#546105 - 06/16/05 12:03 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.  
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 231
B Man Offline
Full Member
B Man  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 231
Quote
Originally posted by ***musical princess***:
What is up with you Thomas F. You must either like to totally contradict what someone else says or you are just an idiot.
Thanks for your balanced words.

I wonder if I should tell you that you completely missed the point?

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