Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Building Finger SPEED (Power) - NOT STRENGTH!

[EDIT 2-09: The title of this thread was originally "Finger-Strengthening Advice from Bodybuilders." I just changed it to "Building Finger SPEED (Power) - NOT STRENGTH!" for the following reason. I started this post to provide a link to a conversation I had with bodybuilders in which I asked several questions about building finger strength. What I learned was that we pianists do NOT need to develop finger strength, but rather POWER, which means SPEED. My choice of original title thread was, therefore, a poor and misleading one, and it caused many to assume the thread was advocating the need to develop finger strength - MY FAULT. Now that this 14 month old thread has been resurrected I noticed it happening again - again, MY FAULT. My only excuse is that the terminology is a little confusing. My understanding was that Bodybuilders consider "raw strength" and "power" to be two different types of "strength." In general conversation, though, if one uses the term "strength" by itself one is thought to be referring only to "raw strength." When reading through this thread please be aware that many respondents were responding to my original title.]

For whatever it's worth, I thought I'd provide a link to a very interesting discussion I've been having on a bodybuiding forum about developing finger strength and exercising in general. I have found the comments to be fascinating and illuminating. A warning to those opposed to the "finger school" of playing, though - you might want to skip this.

Bodybuilding Forum Finger Strengthening Thread

[EDIT: I realize now after reviewing this thread that I inadvertently may have caused some confusion. STRENGTH is the ability to lift or move a heavy object. POWER is the ability to move an object QUICKLY. Pianists DO NOT need to develop STRENGTH because it doesn't take much strength to push down a piano key. We need to develop POWER - the ability to activate the individual fingers with great QUICKNESS.

STRENGTH is developed by working against ever-increasing resistance (think weight-lifting). POWER is developed by moving (in our case the fingers) QUICKLY. Again, we DO NOT need to develop STRENGTH, we need POWER.

The rubber band exercises referred to here and in the linked thread are not central to what is being advocated, as they are designed to build STRENGTH. They were mentioned in the body-buildling thread because it was suggested that, while building STRENGTH is not our main goal, SOME (limited) strength-building does contribute to building power - there is SOME interconnection.]

[EDIT 2: Wanting to know more about the role STRENGTH building plays in buildling POWER, if any, and why I should do ANY strength-building, I PM'd the BodyBuildling.com forum member who provided the most thorough information with the questions. Here is his response:

QUOTE:
First, good advice for any skill-based performer is to train for a level of competency or exertion that is greater than required for standard performance. It's why athletes do wind sprints, why chess players play against computers and, now, why pianist do resistance training!

Keeping that in mind, your actual level of raw strength needed for playing is relatively low but should be greater than needed for your most challenging piece (Rach 3???). Also, the need for progression beyond that level is minimal. Not necessarily useless or ill-advised, but maybe not efficient. For example, if I want to lift 85lb. boxes, I might deadlift 300-400lbs. in the gym, but deadlifting 500-800 lbs. won't give me much value-added for the task. It has other benefits, but if I spend lots of time and risk injury on a 500+ lb deadlift, is it worth it to pick up the same 85lb. box?

I think I answered the question about raw strength above, but let me add something. You cannot develop more power without more resistance. Remember, moving weight without regard to time is strength. Moving that weight rapidly is power. So moving more weight rapidly requires/develops more power. Like strength, your need for power has a useful ceiling. You could keep pushing your limits up, but then you will approach injury with diminishing benefit to your art. So, again, I suggest you train to a level just above what's needed to play optimally.]

Interesting thread, and seems to have many useful suggestions; I'll have to take time to read it in detail.

My hands were in best playing condition when I was in basic training in the army. We spent several minutes each day swinging over a horizontal ladder. Roughened up the skin, but was very effective at developing finger strength, and, it seemed, velocity at the keyboard (doesn't make a lot of sense, I know, but that's what I experienced).

The rubber band thing looked real dangerous - I wouldn't try it. I checked out body builders a year or so ago but not as fruitfully as you've managed. Since then though, I've realized strength can and should only be achieved at the keyboard.

Yeah - that's an idea that I approach with a lot of caution, but I do want to keep an open mind. In moderation in both strength of resistance and time spent doing it, I don't think it needs to be dangerous, though. In fact, I think it can be pretty innocuous.

It's this sort of thing that finished Robert Schumman's career as a pianist. He developed terrible tendinitis after using a mechanical contraption to strengthen his 4th finger. We all know how that ended up.

Not knowing how accurate this well-known story is (there are doubts about it and other theories about what befell Schumann), nor any details about just how he may have used, abused or overused it, still, if we take it as fact, I hardly think cautious use of a rubber band to provide a very controllable amount of resistance by a someone who is well aware of the need for moderation needs to be feared quite so much. Any form of strength building can be dangerous if done incorrectly, and slowly introducing and increasing resistance is a proven method of building strength. At any rate, this was just one suggestion that came out of my discussion, and since resistance is geared more to developing "raw strength" than "power," (read the thread for explanation of the difference between the two) I don't ever see the need for a level of resistance approaching a dangerous level. I see it as something akin to playing on a piano with a hard action. Anyway, while I find the suggestion intruiging and the reasoning compelling, surely this form of exercise cannot be essential - after all, what pianists do we know who practiced with rubber bands? Personally I am attracted by the scientific reasoning of it and the potential for increasing the efficiency of a strength (power)-building program. I do share your wariness, though, just not to the same degree, and I approach it with caution. There were so many other things I learned about how one develops strength (power) and exercising in general that I feel confident I have a good chance of enhancing the efficacy of my current exercise program even sans-rubber bands.

You know I am reading their website carefully - because it could make sense to do some exercise without becoming over involved with it. More creating ability to move with agility and strength and simple options. After all how much do/can the fingers move at any one time, and for how long is that needed. You don't want to overdevelop arms and fingers as a piano player.

I always notice with the sports group at high school when they've had a meet - swimming, tennis, volleyball - their energy for piano is gone for the day, but their muscles have tightened up too from neck to fingertips would impact the piano playing, and fatigue level can be very high to interfere with playing.

Go carefully here!

I met a young man for an interview last week, and he uses a gripper for hand exercise. He was telling me it was his preparation to get ready to take piano lessons and have a strong hand. I was actually speechless. I suggested he keep interviewing because I wanted for him to have the teacher he feels most comfortable with and that this was an important decision on his part. If he should return in January, I will have to address this issue with him. This is one of the reasons why I'm reading this topic and the link.

I don't think our needs of the equipment and the constant exercise is needed, outside of what we gradually develop by playing. We eventually get a workout in techniques, and touches with enough piano lessons under our belt. But I could change my mind if it's proven that there are things in the body building area that transfer to good conditioning for musicians.

First of all, pianists have been doing all sorts of things to try to build what they perceive as "strength" in their fingers for almost 200 years now. Don't you think that if anything actually worked, of the sort of exercises these body-builders are coming up with, we'd all be quite familiar with them? This is not new territory. I think it's an attempt to reinvent a wheel except that the wheel doesn't actually exist.

Second, I'm rather small-boned, and have never in my 50-odd years of life ever imagined myself to be muscular, nor do I have anything resembling a good technique. Nevertheless, I've managed to break piano strings right and left. And hammer shanks, too. I actually bought my current piano because I was destroying my old one, and thought (incorrectly) that a new instrument would mean that newer strings would no longer snap. Wrong!!!

What I'm basically saying is that if a shrimp like me can drive a piano beyond the breaking point, with no special strength, I can't figure out what you hope to achieve by working in this direction. It doesn't take a huge amount of "finger strength" to reach the limits of what a piano can do before starting to break apart. It's all in the attack and the use of the whole body when playing, and doing finger body-building exercises won't affect that.

Once I realized that the issue wasn't the condition of the piano nearly so much it was the way I played, my focus changed. I can actually feel a string-breaking moment coming on now, and try to remember to back off. The tech expenses aren't worth it, even if it is thrilling for a second or two. If I got to that point in a public performance (which I don't do, so it is moot, but just pretending that I would play in public), I think I might go for it anyway, just because the sound right before the string breaks is so glorious.

Sorry to say this, but playing which breaks strings is not good playing. You should try and find a teacher who knows something about technique. You should warn them first, though, so they can update their insurance.


John

I am practicing bodybuilding for quite some time now, the only thing I can say is that my grip is quite strong

But is it good for pianoplaying? I think it is .. although I don't do exercises for my fingers in particular, I think any form of muscle training is good.

I have asked some people on youtube who do the same, and they all say that bodybuilding has a positive effect on their pianoplaying.

I don't think it has anything to do with strenght, but with muscle control, which is the main thing you train when bodybuilding...

Also, I don't believe in those silly isolating exercises with springs etc

I find the hundreds of etudes and exercises left behind by generations of piano pedagogues to be strong proof that building of finger strength has always been regarded as a central goal in attaining a fluent piano technique - the wheel always existed. All I'm doing is trying to think outside the box and enhance the efficiency and efficacy of my practice by taking advantage of "sports science" - a field that did not exist until recent times, and one that is responsible for significant record-breaking in almost every athletic field.


How is your 4-5 trill? Have you ever broken a string by playing your 4th finger in isolation? Could you? Could you even come close? Obviously that is not my goal, but I do wish to increase the power of each of my fingers as much as possible, especially my weaker fingers. Why is this so frowned upon? More importantly, why is the value/necessity of this not obvious? It was obvious to Chopin - look at Op. 10, Nr. 2 (His SECOND etude!)

Talking of Chopin, I found his op25 no 1 exceedingly good for the RH fourth finger - esp bar 15 (though I play the whole thing bringing out finger 4).

What you need is not so much strength than

- flexibililty and independence of fingers
- speed
- stamina to be able to make repeated movements

My opinion from my own experience is that hard physical work, gymnastics, rowing, sailing and cross country skiing have all a negative impact on my piano playing, expecially on the sensitivity and control of fingers.

Quite good on the otyher hand is horse-riding (dressage) where you must keep a soft contact to the horse's mouth.

Karate and body building are out of my exsperience.

IMO the strength you need in piano playing is best developed with various finger exercises.

Jan-Erik - my experience and plain logic has shown me that speed is directly correlated to strength. It's so simple: the more EFFORT it takes to play a note, the more TIME it will take to play it. I agree with your last statement - that's what my whole discussion was about - how to make finger exercises as efficiently effective as possible.

As to independence of fingers, that, I have found, can be achieved well through pattern exercises (through constant changing of patterns) and by playing polyphonic music. Personally I love pattern exercises where you hold one or more fingers down while others play, as they combine two exercises in one - finger isolation and brain-finger control - both exceedingly effective at building independence.

Jan Erik

It's not about strenght, it's about control

My experience is opposite to yours... When I did hard chores with my hands, I expect my hands to play very 'stressed', but it's quite the opposite .. they feel very much in control

Yes - I don't see how anyone could play it CLEANLY without a powerful 4th finger.

It's about strength AND control.

This topic turns up on a regular basis. I'm with Jerry - strength IS control. I am also coming to the conclusion that it's more about ligaments. The flexors are, after all, extremely powerful and any fatigue I feel is always in the fingers or palm. But then I also work out my interosseous and lumbricals.

Many years ago, I did some finger strengthening exercise (not for piano playing) by holding a 4" diameter top of a water bottle (about a gallon) with just the finger tips and swinging it back and forth from the wrist like a clock pendulum. My fingers were very strong, I could easily do push up with curled fingers. But as far as piano playing, speed, control, articulation didn't improve any. If what I did had any effect on my piano playing, I'd think it's in the negative direction.

Did you read the discussion? There is a difference between "raw finger strength" and "power." Also, what you describe is so far removed from exercising the movement involved in articulating the individual fingers, I don't think it applies and I'm not surprised it did not positively effect your playing.