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Scriabin's first sonata #524507
09/23/07 04:18 PM
09/23/07 04:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4
Courtenay
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DylanP Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4
Courtenay
I've just started this piece, and it's difficult (to say the least). I like to think I have decent technique and that I understand the piano fairly well (bmus in performance, played with symphonies etc.), but Scriabin is making me think otherwise. Can anyone who has played this piece offer tips, especially on the middle section and closing theme of the first movement and the third movement in general.

Also, list your favorite recordings if you have any. I just listened to Robert Taub, and I can't say I enjoyed it very much.

Thanks

Dylan


I don't need a house. As long as I get an 11-foot concert steinway, I can live in it's humidity control box...
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Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524508
09/23/07 05:13 PM
09/23/07 05:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 101
UK
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Pianorak Offline
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UK
Vladimir Ashkenazy - in particular the opening of the first movement.

Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524509
09/23/07 09:19 PM
09/23/07 09:19 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,506
Denver, Colorado
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AndrewG Offline
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As to the recordings I would recommend MAH as the 1st choice. Ashkenazy 2nd.

Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524510
09/24/07 01:29 PM
09/24/07 01:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
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argerichfan Offline
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I'll second Askenazy too. Boris Berman's disc of the earlier sonatas is highly recommended, though I didn't care as much for his late sonatas.


Jason
Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524511
09/24/07 06:59 PM
09/24/07 06:59 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,501
Champaign, IL
Fleeting Visions Offline
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I'm not fond of much of Boris's playing.

Did Sofronitzky record this?


Amateur Pianist, Scriabin Enthusiast, and Octave Demon
Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524512
09/24/07 08:19 PM
09/24/07 08:19 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,506
Denver, Colorado
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AndrewG Offline
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Yes Sofronitzky did some, not the complete set that I know of. He did various Preludes and Mazurkas, Etudes, etc. His Scriabin is hypnotic! One of a kind.

Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524513
09/24/07 10:40 PM
09/24/07 10:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,981
Salt Lake City
Thracozaag Offline
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Salt Lake City
I would recommend Lazar Berman and Igor Zhukov.

koji


"I'm a concert pianist--that's a pretentious way of saying I'm unemployed at the moment."--Oscar Levant

http://www.youtube.com/kojiattwood
https://www.giftedmusicschool.org/
Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524514
09/25/07 03:43 AM
09/25/07 03:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 180
new york
bryan s Offline
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John Ogdon's is sub-par. Ashkenazy does it for me, though.


John Coltrane saved my life.
Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524515
09/25/07 04:26 AM
09/25/07 04:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
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argerichfan Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Thracozaag:
I would recommend Lazar Berman and Igor Zhukov.
Zhukov, well okay. Lazar Berman?

Good grief, the uncouth banger of the piano still lives. As if Berman's godless assault on Mazeppa were not enough, he actually took a moment (before or after his disgusting Schubert D960?) to record a few of the Schubert-Liszt transcriptions.

His metrically uncomprehending view of Liszt's highly stylized take on Schubert suggested that he had never even heard the originals.


Jason
Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524516
09/25/07 07:23 AM
09/25/07 07:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 101
UK
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Pianorak Offline
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UK
Zhukov yes, I heard him at the Wigmore Hall, London, some years ago.

I think Lazar Berman’s recordings of the Liszt Sonata and Beethoven Appassionata (recorded early 60s?) are excellent and as for his Annees de Pelerinage – hmm, haven’t come across anything better (but I haven’t looked very far). Btw. Berman is no longer in the land of the living.

I agree, John Ogdon’s complete Scriabin sonatas are indeed a disappointment.

Sofronitsky recorded Scriabin sonatas nos. 3, 4 and 9. Don’t know of any others.

Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524517
09/25/07 02:30 PM
09/25/07 02:30 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,501
Champaign, IL
Fleeting Visions Offline
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Fleeting Visions  Offline
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Champaign, IL
Quote
Originally posted by argerichfan:
Quote
Originally posted by Thracozaag:
I would recommend Lazar Berman and Igor Zhukov.
Zhukov, well okay. Lazar Berman?

Good grief, the uncouth banger of the piano still lives. As if Berman's godless assault on Mazeppa were not enough, he actually took a moment (before or after his disgusting Schubert D960?) to record a few of the Schubert-Liszt transcriptions.

His metrically uncomprehending view of Liszt's highly stylized take on Schubert suggested that he had never even heard the originals.
You don't like him, do you? If I'm rigt in my thoughts (and I'm likely not), it takes careful listening, but often his control of tone is incredible, beneath the surface of his volume. This was noticeable in a TE set with a Ricordanza, while all the notes sounded bangy (bad miking, maybe?), the tone and balance was great.

His Mazeppa is not one of my favorites. The piece Liszt wrote is, in essence, one enormous accelerando. That has a lot to do with how it should be interpreted. Then, personally, i believe that Liszt's crescendo markings on the intermediate notes of the main theme is really important to pull off the orchestral effect. The right phrasing/building of climaxes is very hard but terrifically effective when well done.

I have read accounts of Ogdon or Busoni playing it with such titanic scope.


Amateur Pianist, Scriabin Enthusiast, and Octave Demon
Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524518
09/25/07 02:59 PM
09/25/07 02:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
A
argerichfan Offline
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argerichfan  Offline
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A

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
Quote
Originally posted by Pianorak:
Berman is no longer in the land of the living.
Yes, my remark was meant figuratively.

Good on anybody who can hear more in Berman's art than I can.


Jason
Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524519
09/25/07 06:32 PM
09/25/07 06:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,981
Salt Lake City
Thracozaag Offline
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,981
Salt Lake City
*sigh*

koji


"I'm a concert pianist--that's a pretentious way of saying I'm unemployed at the moment."--Oscar Levant

http://www.youtube.com/kojiattwood
https://www.giftedmusicschool.org/
Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524520
09/25/07 09:53 PM
09/25/07 09:53 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,744
McAllen, TX
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Brendan Offline
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Brendan  Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,744
McAllen, TX
Quote
Originally posted by argerichfan:
Quote
Originally posted by Thracozaag:
I would recommend Lazar Berman and Igor Zhukov.
Zhukov, well okay. Lazar Berman?

Good grief, the uncouth banger of the piano still lives. As if Berman's godless assault on Mazeppa were not enough, he actually took a moment (before or after his disgusting Schubert D960?) to record a few of the Schubert-Liszt transcriptions.

His metrically uncomprehending view of Liszt's highly stylized take on Schubert suggested that he had never even heard the originals.
I couldn't disagree more. For me, Berman's recording of the Transcendental Etudes is the finest one available. If anything, he captures the transcendental aspect of them. More than any other recording, I hear a composer stretching music and the piano to its utmost. Couple that with the literary (Vision), historical (Mazappa), and supernatural (Feux Follets) and natural (Chasse Neige) aspects of the music, and it's an amazing experience that is purely 19th-century. I find it to be very different approach from Kissin and others who might be more technically proficient but don't have the same effect.

As for his Mazeppa, it still makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up every time I listen to it.

Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524521
09/25/07 11:03 PM
09/25/07 11:03 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,506
Denver, Colorado
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AndrewG Offline
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AndrewG  Offline
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Denver, Colorado
I'm all the way with Brendan on Berman's TE. For the complete set Berman is my 1st choice followed by Bolet, Ovchinnikov(sp?). Richter played only 8. These are excellent too. To each his own, I guess.

Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524522
09/25/07 11:19 PM
09/25/07 11:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
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argerichfan Offline
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argerichfan  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
Quote
Originally posted by AndrewG:
For the complete set Berman is my 1st choice followed by Bolet, Ovchinnikov(sp?).
Ovchinnikov? (Maybe I haven't spelled it correctly either, but it is no priority for me to look up.)

I hated that recording. I tossed it in the rubbish. What mindless bilge. Over and out; I never heard any real music in that recording, though of course the notes were there in abundance.

OKAY YOU GUYS!!!

Tell argerichfan which is the best current transfer of Berman's TE's. I will purchase it -if you people can agree on which one- and I will be the first to admit that I had it all wrong.

More of a plea really: Arrau is sounding a bit dowdy and tired these days. Help me to restore the excitement of this glorious music, like I had never heard it before, okay?

A video of England's greatest composer telling the orchestra: "Play this tune like you never heard it before".

So you see what I'm looking for? Have at it...


Jason
Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524523
09/25/07 11:35 PM
09/25/07 11:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,326
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Reaper978 Offline
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I've listened to Lazar Berman's transcendental etudes and his 1963 (I think) recording is one of my favorites. As far as "banger of pianos", I thought such attack was completely appropriate for the fury of Mazeppa.

Scriabin's first sonata is a fantastic piece, but I'm afraid I can't give any feedback regarding its difficulty. I was positively floored when I heard the raging opening octaves played by Ashkenazy in his latest complete set.

-Colin

Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524524
09/25/07 11:39 PM
09/25/07 11:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,981
Salt Lake City
Thracozaag Offline
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Thracozaag  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,981
Salt Lake City
I prefer the 1963 as well; might I suggest you purchase the Brilliant Classics set of Berman? I think it would go a long ways towards possibly convincing you that Berman was far more than some sort of mindless pounder which you (and many critics) seemed to pigeon-hole him as.

koji


"I'm a concert pianist--that's a pretentious way of saying I'm unemployed at the moment."--Oscar Levant

http://www.youtube.com/kojiattwood
https://www.giftedmusicschool.org/
Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524525
09/26/07 12:11 AM
09/26/07 12:11 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
A
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member
argerichfan  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
Quote
Originally posted by Thracozaag:
...might I suggest you purchase the Brilliant Classics set of Berman? I think it would go a long ways towards possibly convincing you that Berman was far more than some sort of mindless pounder which you (and many critics) seemed to pigeon-hole him as.
I believe Brilliant Classics is a budget label (at least in the States), and I will certainly look into this. Many thanks, and what are the forums for if we cannot learn from each other?

This could be very exciting; I look forward to it. smile


Jason
Re: Scriabin's first sonata #524526
09/26/07 01:31 AM
09/26/07 01:31 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 180
new york
bryan s Offline
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bryan s  Offline
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new york
Berman's "Vision" is worth the price of the album.


John Coltrane saved my life.
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