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Re: Help... #523664
04/08/05 09:56 AM
04/08/05 09:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 222
New York, NY
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member
SteinwayTony  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 222
New York, NY
Quote
Originally posted by RoyalJoyal89:
Well i am very dissapointed to hear that the Aria from the Goldberg Variations is out of my league. The only rwaosn why i am so dissapointed is because that is the song that made me finally say that i didnt care what my prents said i am going to take piano (parents thought it wouldnt give me any benefeit in life).I thought they were stupid they thought i was insane becaus ei am the sterwo typical jock i wrestle play soccer track and weight lift and it was really random for me to ask and play the piano. But i did and i have always been in lvoe with the instument jsut simply becuase i get greta satisfaction out of wathcing my hands play such cool peices. SO aftetr telling my life story i would hope tha maybe jsut maybe there is any hope in me being able to play the Aria form the Goldberg Variations. Or is it jsut immpossible.
You "learned the Fur Elise" in three weeks?

Well, let me start by saying that I'm sincerely sorry you had to go through that. If I were your teacher, I'd be afraid to let you progress to the Aria of the Goldberg Variations strictly because of that poor decision involving the Fur Elise. The problem with Fur Elise is that only 2% of the live performances I have heard of it begin to do the piece justice. You wouldn't believe how many horrible simplified versions I've heard of the piece: some people even try to play it in 4/4! If you're done with the Fur Elise in three weeks, I don't think you'd grasp the musicality or style of the Goldberg Variations, whether or not all the notes were under your fingers. Your comment expressing your desire to learn all of the difficult pieces is senseless and naive and makes me think that you are playing this instrument for all the wrong reasons. I agree with the other posters who suggested some simple minuets, bourrees, and at the very most, 2-part inventions if you feel up to a challenge. As a pianist, you have a very important musical responsibility; the notes aren't even the half of it.

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Re: Help... #523665
04/08/05 10:53 AM
04/08/05 10:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,654
New York City
Phlebas Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Phlebas  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,654
New York City
SteinwayTony,

Lighten up a little. RoyalJoyal sounds like he's playing piano because he enjoys it. There's no "important musical responsibility" implicit in that.

Re: Help... #523666
04/08/05 11:29 AM
04/08/05 11:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,192
Topeka, Kansas
RKVS1 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
RKVS1  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,192
Topeka, Kansas
I can certainly see how people would say that the Goldbergs are beyond most players.

But I doesn't think that trying to play the main theme is a hopeless cause. The final segment of the entire set IS the Aria or main theme, and presented at this point in the simplest way of the entire work. It certainly has some challenges, but nothing like those in the rest of the piece. I think a less advanced player could play this, and shouldn't be chastised for doing so, as long as he doesn't run around saying that he "plays the Goldbergs".

I can certainly empathize with RJ89 for his desire to play a piece as pretty, fetching, sublime ... insert your own adjective ... as this one.

The liner notes of my copy of Rosalyn Tureck's CD of the Goldbergs says : "The Aria, possibly of French origin, appears in Anna Magdalena's Clavier Book of 1725 as a sarabande"
Well, I searched the titles of the AM Notebook with no luck, but haven't actually looked at the music to see which one Tureck's editor might be referring too. (My melodic memory came up empty too, but that's no surprise.)

I'm posting this now,as opposed to later, because I hoped some of the more knowledgeable folks might be able to take this AM-Notebook lead farther than I can at the moment.

Point being, RJ89 isn't trying to play the entire variations, just the melody they are built on. If it exist elsewhere in a simpler form, maybe that will suffice for the time being. smile


Bob

Re: Help... #523667
04/08/05 11:37 AM
04/08/05 11:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 32
Barnstable, Massachusetts
RoyalJoyal89 Offline OP
Full Member
RoyalJoyal89  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 32
Barnstable, Massachusetts
Maybe some of you miss understood me when i said i play it to impress people. What i meant was there are alot of people that dont think piano is right for me and that it wont do anything to benefeit me in life. So i want to prove those people wrong and in my opinion playing happy birthday will show them nothing. I could care less what any one thinks about what i do and the reasons why i do things. Also to some of you who had said i play to impress and don't like the music. You are wrong i love the music by many various composers and i enjoy listening to peices where you can tell that when the composer wrote this there was alot of emotion involved. I take private lessons,a dn my teacher is very good at what he does. First he started me with simple scales, i was very excited and asked if maybe we could start looking at peices of music. He wanted to start of with something simple i brought tup fur Elise. He said that he doesn't expect me to learn this piece very quickly because i just started. But the following week i plyed three times the amount of the ong that eh wanted me to. By the way this is not a simplified verison of it. SO to every one that think i am playing to impress i would just liek to say that thats not it at all.SO just to let you all know that i am the type of person who is very dedicated and driven to reach his goals. My goal is be the best pianist i can be and not for any one else but my self. I find great enjoyment out of playing the piano and have since i was younger just never had the guts to say i wanted to take lessons. SO i apologize for any miscommunication and thanks for all of the help and keep it coming if any new songs pop into your head.

Re: Help... #523668
04/08/05 11:41 AM
04/08/05 11:41 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 32
Barnstable, Massachusetts
RoyalJoyal89 Offline OP
Full Member
RoyalJoyal89  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 32
Barnstable, Massachusetts
Well thanks Bob. Yet i think that if some one is going to play a pecie of music, but in a simpler form; inmy opinion it is just a waste of tim and your doing some thing half A** If i was to try the Aria i would play the real song and no i am not looking for bragging rights.

Re: Help... #523669
04/08/05 11:41 AM
04/08/05 11:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 222
New York, NY
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member
SteinwayTony  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 222
New York, NY
Quote
Originally posted by RKVS1:

Point being, RJ89 isn't trying to play the entire variations, just the melody they are built on. If it exist elsewhere in a simpler form, maybe that will suffice for the time being.
I don't see the difference between this and only playing the "melody" of Fur Elise, which is often the case.

Re: Help... #523670
04/08/05 11:45 AM
04/08/05 11:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 32
Barnstable, Massachusetts
RoyalJoyal89 Offline OP
Full Member
RoyalJoyal89  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 32
Barnstable, Massachusetts
You "learned the Fur Elise" in three weeks?

Well, let me start by saying that I'm sincerely sorry you had to go through that. If I were your teacher, I'd be afraid to let you progress to the Aria of the Goldberg Variations strictly because of that poor decision involving the Fur Elise. The problem with Fur Elise is that only 2% of the live performances I have heard of it begin to do the piece justice. You wouldn't believe how many horrible simplified versions I've heard of the piece: some people even try to play it in 4/4! If you're done with the Fur Elise in three weeks, I don't think you'd grasp the musicality or style of the Goldberg Variations, whether or not all the notes were under your fingers. Your comment expressing your desire to learn all of the difficult pieces is senseless and naive and makes me think that you are playing this instrument for all the wrong reasons. I agree with the other posters who suggested some simple minuets, bourrees, and at the very most, 2-part inventions if you feel up to a challenge. As a pianist, you have a very important musical responsibility; the notes aren't even the half of it.


First off it is not a simplified version and when i say three weeks i mean that i cany play the whole song yet it is not polished. I would not even think of playing it in a preformencs because i would murder the song. I need to fine tune it or polish it before playing in a recital situation.

Re: Help... #523671
04/08/05 08:00 PM
04/08/05 08:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 32
Barnstable, Massachusetts
RoyalJoyal89 Offline OP
Full Member
RoyalJoyal89  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 32
Barnstable, Massachusetts
comeon a ;little feed back people

Re: Help... #523672
04/08/05 09:09 PM
04/08/05 09:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 228
Dreamaurora Offline
Full Member
Dreamaurora  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 228
We've given you the necessary feedbacks you need, basically:
1. You need a good teacher experience in teaching late-starters
2. Stick to easy pieces first and learn to make and enjoy music out of them

Unless you are expecting us to list you some difficult pieces or encourage you to go ahead to try those difficult pieces so you can boost your ego, I see that it will be pointless to get further feedback.

And by the way, the Aria from Goldberg is by no means easy, you need extremely good musicality to play that Aria well.

Re: Help... #523673
04/08/05 09:38 PM
04/08/05 09:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 912
Oregon
Jeff135 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Jeff135  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 912
Oregon
You want something difficult, here are a few:

Beethoven sonatas Op. 53, 57, 106, 111.

Any of the Rachmaninoff Piano Concertos

Prokofiev's 2nd Concerto.

As you can see I am being sarcastic.

Like the saying goes, you need to be able to walk before you run. I would reccomend as everyone else has that you learn simpler and easier pieces before attempting the Aria.


The clown is watching you.
Re: Help... #523674
04/08/05 09:56 PM
04/08/05 09:56 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,749
McAllen, TX
B
Brendan Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Brendan  Offline
5000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,749
McAllen, TX
Quote
Originally posted by Phlebas:
SteinwayTony,

Lighten up a little. RoyalJoyal sounds like he's playing piano because he enjoys it. There's no "important musical responsibility" implicit in that.
Agreed on both counts.

Re: Help... #523675
04/08/05 10:40 PM
04/08/05 10:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 114
UK
elfen Offline
Full Member
elfen  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 114
UK
Okay, it's difficult thing to tell, but when you hear someone who plays piano to impress others, I think you can see it through in their playing.

By the way, I wish I had more courage to challenge myself with big pieces. I always thought those insurmountable pieces were never for me. I'm now more comfortable to try perhaps a passage or two from those 'shrines'of mine as my playing gets better etc. From that experience, persuing some immediate goals can facilitate your learning, I think. (perhaps not as extreme as Goldberg)

Re: Help... #523676
04/08/05 10:50 PM
04/08/05 10:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,857
North Groton, NH
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Bernard  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,857
North Groton, NH
RoyalJoyal89,

I don't know if you'll find these challenging or not, but it might be worth looking into them:

Muzio Clementi, Sonatina Op. 36 n. 1

Edvard Grieg, Lyrical Pieces Op. 12 (The "Arietta" is very pretty)

Erik Satie, 1st, 2nd & 3rd Gymnopedies

Jules Massenet, Melodie (Elegie), Op. 10

Felix Mendelssohn, Venetian Boat-Song No.1, Op 19, No. 6

Robert Schumann, Traumerei, Op. 15, No. 7

Franz Schubert, Impromptu, Op 90, No. 1 (QUITE a challange!)

Joseph Haydn, Variations, Hob. XVII:3.

Some of those should be quite a challenge for you. Take a look.

If you really love the "Aria" from Bach's Goldberg Variations, I say get the music and give it a whirl. What's going to happen? The piano going to bite you back? Not likely. Like many have said, there are a lot of trills and timing issues--counting is important. Expect the unexpected when first reading this--it really is not as easy as it sounds or looks. smile


"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown
Re: Help... #523677
04/09/05 04:12 AM
04/09/05 04:12 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,273
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,273
Victoria, BC
Quote
Originally posted by RoyalJoyal89:
So i want to prove those people wrong and in my opinion playing happy birthday will show them nothing. I could care less what any one thinks about what i do and the reasons why i do things.
You could "care less" about what anyone thinks about what [you] do, but you want to "prove them wrong"! Isn't this a gross contradiction?

I still don't understand your motives for playing the piano, then.


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Help... #523678
04/09/05 10:54 AM
04/09/05 10:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 32
Barnstable, Massachusetts
RoyalJoyal89 Offline OP
Full Member
RoyalJoyal89  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 32
Barnstable, Massachusetts
My motives are simply because i want to. Thank you for all of your help.

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