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Sounds like a badly-mixed cocktail, doesn't it? Anyway, as many of you know, Rachmaninoff attended the premiere of Rhapsody in Blue. Anybody have any sources as to what Rach thought of it, and/or Gershwin's music in general, particularly the Concerto in F? He was pretty hard on MacDowell ("Just heard a performance of a bad concerto ((d min.)) by somebody named Dowell")Any feedback greatly appreciated.
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I once asked a graduate of one of the major Russian conservatories what he thought(in terms of greatness as a compoer) of Gershwin. His reply was "about like Rachmaninoff."
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Edward Jablonski's "Gershwin: A Biography" reports that Rachmaninoff, Godowsky, Kreisler and Stokowski were all invited to attend the premiere of Rhapsody in Blue, but there's no indication whether all of them attended or what their reaction was. On Dec. 3, 1925, however, the Concerto in F premiered at Carnegie Hall with Gershwin as soloist. Rachmaninoff, Heifetz and Josef Hoffman all attended. According to Gershwin, they ventured backstage through the press of relatives and friends and "complimented me on my piano execution."
The Jablonski book is well researched and highly readable -- strongly recommended for anyone who wants to learn more about America's greatest composer. The best part of the book is its very first sentence, which quotes the reaction of the novelist John O'Hara on learning of Gershwin's death: "George Gershwin died on July 11, 1937, but I don't have to believe it if I don't want to." Nearly three-quarters of a century later, those words still ring true.
Phil Bjorlo
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I believe Rachmaninoff composed his 4th piano concerto after listening to Gershwin performing. He enjoyed it and he wanted to incorporate the jazzy style in the concerto, but he wasn't successful.
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"... It is a skill you go on learning all your life: the more you write, the more you learn."
Harry Freedman on the craft of composing
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Originally posted by Googlism: I believe Rachmaninoff composed his 4th piano concerto after listening to Gershwin performing. He enjoyed it and he wanted to incorporate the jazzy style in the concerto, but he wasn't successful. I think it was Art Tatum. You're right about his lack of success in that piece. He had some great ideas but it didn't really come together well.
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I posted this before, but the big recapitulation towards the end of the 3rd movement of the Rach 2nd piano concerto still sounds very Gershwinesque. Bits of the 3rd as well. So I would think the influence went the other way around.
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Originally posted by Emanuel Ravelli: Sorry -- the last quote should have been closed after "don't want to." The final sentence is all mine and none of Mr. O'Hara's doing. Just a tip, but the button next to the quote button lets you edit your posts.
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Rachmaninoff thought that Horowitz was a better composer than Gershwin. Shows you what he knew!
Semipro Tech
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Originally posted by BDB: Rachmaninoff thought that Horowitz was a better composer than Gershwin. Shows you what he knew! In many ways Horowitz was a great composer. His genius was mainly in transcribing, arranging and effects...but he also showed a great talent for structure and drama. A good example of his musical genius is his arrangement of Rachmaninoff's Sonata in Bflat minor. Horowitz wasn't an intellect but he knew what he was doing. Gershwin was a genius of song writing. Sure Rhaposdy in Blue, and the Concerto in F are great pieces of music and do a wonderful job intermixing jazz and classical music together...but Gershwin was really a master of small form and song writing. You could maybe argue Horowitz was a better composer but really it depends on Rachmaninoff's taste...and he usually has good taste. By the way when did he ever even say that.
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by the way there is no doubt in my mind that Rachmaninoff was influenced by jazz. All one needs to do is look at his harmonic language. It's very "jazzy" filled with extended chords and dissonance...at time it can be rather ambiguous. There is a lot of jazz like qualities in his music, it's probably why it goes over so well with the mass public.
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Originally posted by BDB: Rachmaninoff thought that Horowitz was a better composer than Gershwin. Shows you what he knew! I am unaware of any accredited source which quoted Rachmaninoff saying Horowitz was a greater composer than Gershwin. However, it is true that the three once attended the same party. Rachmaninoff grew tired at the way Gershwin was hogging the piano and boomed out "Gorovitz, play your Danse!"
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To all: thanks for your contributions. Verrrryyy interesting. I guess Rach himself never made mention of his opinion of Gershwin in any of his writings, or somebody in here definitely would hve picked up on it. I noted that it was mentioned that after the premiere of Gershwin's Concerto in F, the "Holy Trinity" went backstage & congratulated him on his pianistic execution - no mention of their opinion of the work itself. I guess Rach could be a real snob at times, or maybe he just didn't have a love affair going w/ Gershwin's music in general. Jealousy possibly? Could Rach have secretly envied the way Gershwin had captured the hearts of America, young and poor alike, while he was appealing mainly to the highbrows? Hank, I've heard that story too about Rach & Gershwin at the party. The account I read said that Rach boomed out, "Horowitz, play the Carmen Varations!" Would love to have witnessed a brawl break out between the three as Horowitz orders Gershwin off the bench, Gershwin refuses, Horowitz takes a poke, George jumps up and coldcocks Horowitz, who goes flying, whereupon all 6'7" of Rach jumps into the fray, crowns George w/ a candlelabra while his back is turned, brushes his hands, helps Vladimir to his feet and says, "Now Horowitz, the Carmen Variations!"
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I have no source for this - sorry - but I read or heard somewhere that Rach had expressed great admiration for Gershwin and stated that he would never be able to make the kind of money he did. I believe this may have came from my old teacher, who was a Julliard Grad and lived with a world-class violinist who was father to Ralph Kirschbaum, who is a world-class cellist. She did have some connections and was the right age to know these things. But as I said - no source. I've often wondered what other beautiful music we would have if Gershwin had lived.
You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!
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August Förster 215
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Don Manildi, who heads up the International Piano Archives, has expressed the opinion that, in terms of piano writing, the two best piano concertos are:
Gershwin: Piano Concerto in F
Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto No. 4
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So now we have Gershwin, who secretly yearns to be Rachmaninoff - and Rachmaninoff, who might secretly have yearned to be Gershwin. And both having written the best concertos in the literature. What a marriage they'd have made!
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