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Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516194
06/23/07 01:44 AM
06/23/07 01:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 8
Beethoven Virus Offline
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Things really are simple. People make them more complicated than they really are.

But you're right. Why waste time trying to make any points at all. Just move along.

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Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516195
06/23/07 01:48 AM
06/23/07 01:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4
vermont
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crazydude86 Offline
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vermont
Ahh well i hate to break it to you but alot of the time the answer are nice and compact. Life is pretty simple. All situations can be made down to right or wrong decision. The grey area is an illusion. Even in the most complex situations. I am sorry if you do not agree with this. I do not know you but i assuem you think of yourself as a reasonably inteligent person. So stop and actually think about it. instead of assuming u have the answers as well. The reason I belive that music also works with this is becasue music is a reflection of life itself.

Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516196
06/23/07 02:13 AM
06/23/07 02:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 536
Auckland, New Zealand
Matthew Collett Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by crazydude86:
Ahh well i hate to break it to you but alot of the time the answer are nice and compact. Life is pretty simple. All situations can be made down to right or wrong decision.
Life is complex [*]. And every sufficiently complicated problem has at least one solution that is simple, obvious and wrong.

[*] That is, it has a real part and an imaginary part. wink

Best wishes,
Matthew


"Passions, violent or not, may never be expressed to the point of revulsion; even in the most frightening situation music must never offend the ear but must even then offer enjoyment, i.e. must always remain music." -- W.A.Mozart

212cm Fazioli: some photos and recordings .
Auckland Catholic Music Schola .
Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516197
06/23/07 02:17 AM
06/23/07 02:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
A
argerichfan Offline
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Posts: 9,373
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Quote
Originally posted by crazydude86:
I do not know you but i assuem you think of yourself as a reasonably inteligent person. So stop and actually think about it. instead of assuming u have the answers as well. The reason I belive that music also works with this is becasue music is a reflection of life itself.
I consider myself "fairly" intelligent, but I never said I had all the answers. With all due respect, the fractured grammar and misspelt words in your post hardly advance your case. And frankly, your last sentence is so utterly opaque as to be lost on me. From what I can gather of it, your thoughts seem more as a "work in progress". Earth to crazydude?


Jason
Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516198
06/23/07 03:46 AM
06/23/07 03:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 921
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phonehome Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by crazydude86:
Life is pretty simple.
ummmmmmmmmmmmm confused

Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516199
06/23/07 08:59 AM
06/23/07 08:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 261
north of 53
M
me_dup1 Offline
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north of 53
Beethoven Virus Member # 23811
crazydude86 Member # 23812

?

Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516200
06/23/07 09:50 AM
06/23/07 09:50 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,674
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by me:
Beethoven Virus Member # 23811
crazydude86 Member # 23812

?
You noticed that too, did you, and the fact that one posted after the other on the "Match for Rach II" "My Beethoven Sonata recording" threads, each with a similar-sounding post? "Game players" quickly lose their credibility on this forum.

As for the matter at hand, Mlle Grimaud has proven by her recordings that she is an artist of international calibre, and she should be given the benefit of the doubt until it has been proven that she isn't/wasn't indeed too ill to continue her performance.

There have been other artists who, in the past, have had to cancel performances because of serious illness, yet some of the public is all too ready to claim that such artists are quixotic in their nature and cavalier with respect to their obligations to the paid ticket holders.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516201
06/23/07 11:22 AM
06/23/07 11:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
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argerichfan Offline
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Pacific Northwest, US.
Quote
Originally posted by BruceD:
You noticed that too, did you, and the fact that one posted after the other on the "Match for Rach II" "My Beethoven Sonata recording" threads, each with a similar-sounding post? "Game players" quickly lose their credibility on this forum.
I suspected that also. Sock Puppets, I believe?


Jason
Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516202
06/23/07 11:51 AM
06/23/07 11:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,470
Santa Fe, NM
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jotur Offline
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Santa Fe, NM
Quote
Originally posted by me:
Beethoven Virus Member # 23811
crazydude86 Member # 23812

?
me, too laugh


Cathy
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Practice what you suck at - anonymous
Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516203
06/23/07 01:49 PM
06/23/07 01:49 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,716
Cleveland, Ohio
Hank Drake Offline
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Cleveland, Ohio
Whatever one's opinion on Helene Grimaud's pianism, and I'll be the first to admit I don't know her playing well, heart arrhythmia is a serious matter. It justifies her cancelling a recital or leaving before it's finished. I can't imagine someone would want her career to end the way Simon Barere's did.


Hank Drake

The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
George Szell
Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516204
06/23/07 02:13 PM
06/23/07 02:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,214
San Francisco, CA
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Auntie Lynn Offline
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San Francisco, CA
There's a thread on this over on Classical Music Guide (CMG) - apparently she has cardiac arrhythmia...

Bad stuff...

Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516205
06/23/07 02:37 PM
06/23/07 02:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,868
pianojerome Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Beethoven Virus:
Why waste time trying to make any points at all.
It's always more powerful if you make them twice in a row, all 4 (so far) times, and always within a few minutes of each other.

Sometimes we think that we're so tricky and clever, but as you said -- it's very clear and simple.

edit: maybe I should have read the rest of the thread first! jotur, BruceD, argerichfan, and me-- you beat me to it.


Sam
Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516206
06/23/07 02:57 PM
06/23/07 02:57 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 450
Oh/Fla
playliszt Offline
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Hank Drake:
Quote
It justifies her cancelling a recital or leaving before it's finished. I can't imagine someone would want her career to end the way Simon Barere's did.
Barere died of a massive cerebral brain hemorrage during a performance of Grieg's Piano Concerto at Carnegie Hall, with Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra. frown

Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516207
06/23/07 03:32 PM
06/23/07 03:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 162
Mr. Durden Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by BruceD:
Quote
Originally posted by me:
[b] Beethoven Virus Member # 23811
crazydude86 Member # 23812

?
As for the matter at hand, Mlle Grimaud has proven by her recordings that she is an artist of international calibre, and she should be given the benefit of the doubt until it has been proven that she isn't/wasn't indeed too ill to continue her performance.

There have been other artists who, in the past, have had to cancel performances because of serious illness, yet some of the public is all too ready to claim that such artists are quixotic in their nature and cavalier with respect to their obligations to the paid ticket holders.

Regards, [/b]
Thanks, Bruce D! I couldn't agree with you more, nor could I have said it better myself.

I certainly hope such health issues don't spell a premature end to a promising career for Mlle Grimaud.


When Gould famously cancelled his 1963 appearance with Leonard Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic, sixteen-year-old Andre Watts was on hand to sit in for Gould, launching the young pianist into international stardom.

Why does this practice not apply to solo piano recitals?
Any thoughts?

Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516208
06/23/07 06:56 PM
06/23/07 06:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 553
U.S.A.
Tenuto Offline
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Interesting. Every character in an opera or show has an understudy - why not the pianist's recital as well? The two of them could even learn the same pieces and/or concerti.

Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516209
06/23/07 07:18 PM
06/23/07 07:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,868
pianojerome Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Tenuto:
Interesting. Every character in an opera or show has an understudy - why not the pianist's recital as well? The two of them could even learn the same pieces and/or concerti.
Because there are people who do not go for the music, although that is of course a nice bonus -- they go for the pianist.

If Evgeny Kissin came to Ann Arbor, I would definately go to his concert... regardless of what he's playing. Needless to say, I'd be disappointed if a local pianist played as a substitute.


Sam
Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516210
06/23/07 08:26 PM
06/23/07 08:26 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,886
San Francisco
whippen boy Offline
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Sam, you never know... it could be someone really phenomenal.


M&H "A" at home
Bösendorfer Imperial
Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516211
06/23/07 09:26 PM
06/23/07 09:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
A
argerichfan Offline
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A

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
Quote
Originally posted by whippen boy:
Sam, you never know... it could be someone really phenomenal.
Like you? Don't be shy whippen boy, I've seen you in full flower on another forum. Hats off gentlemen...


Jason
Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516212
06/24/07 07:02 AM
06/24/07 07:02 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,886
San Francisco
whippen boy Offline
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San Francisco
shocked Why, thank you.

However, I don't think I'll be filling in for Evgeny Kissin anytime soon. wink


M&H "A" at home
Bösendorfer Imperial
Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516213
06/24/07 07:09 AM
06/24/07 07:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
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argerichfan Offline
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
Quote
Originally posted by whippen boy:

However, I don't think I'll be filling in for Evgeny Kissin anytime soon. wink
What, you don't have 14 encores prepared yet? laugh


Jason
Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516214
06/25/07 02:30 AM
06/25/07 02:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,117
Norway
Ragnhild Offline
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Norway
whippen boy :

I hope that among the 14 encores there will be a dance number wink

Ragnhild


Trying to play the piano:
http://www.box.net/public/dbr23ll03e
Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516215
06/25/07 10:02 AM
06/25/07 10:02 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 304
Bangkok, Thailand
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bkkmd Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by pianojerome:
Quote
Originally posted by Tenuto:
[b] Interesting. Every character in an opera or show has an understudy - why not the pianist's recital as well? The two of them could even learn the same pieces and/or concerti.
Because there are people who do not go for the music, although that is of course a nice bonus -- they go for the pianist.

If Evgeny Kissin came to Ann Arbor, I would definately go to his concert... regardless of what he's playing. Needless to say, I'd be disappointed if a local pianist played as a substitute. [/b]
There is an article in NY Times today about her cancelling a performence at Caramoor Festival so whatever illness she has certainly does not seem to be a one night event. Since she was supposed to appear in a Brahms piano concerto as a 2nd half of the proram, they did find a substitute but they did change the program quite a bit.

Understudy is not always such a bad thing. Don't know about piano but sometimes it is quite exciting, especially for opera. One time, I saw Carol Vaness substituted in for another indisposed
singer who was not nearly as good. Sometimes a major star gets their first break and recognition by being an understudy/substitute..Domingo, Cheryl Studer, Renee Flemming to name a few.

Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516216
06/25/07 11:03 AM
06/25/07 11:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 341
Evansville, Indiana
TheMadMan86 Offline
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Yes the same thing worked with piano. Substitues sometime get their breaks. Two examples to mind are Horowtiz and Lang Lang.

Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516217
06/25/07 02:40 PM
06/25/07 02:40 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 33
Claremont, CA
Music Student Offline OP
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Quote
Originally posted by pianojerome:
Quote
Originally posted by Tenuto:
[b] Interesting. Every character in an opera or show has an understudy - why not the pianist's recital as well? The two of them could even learn the same pieces and/or concerti.
Because there are people who do not go for the music, although that is of course a nice bonus -- they go for the pianist.

If Evgeny Kissin came to Ann Arbor, I would definately go to his concert... regardless of what he's playing. Needless to say, I'd be disappointed if a local pianist played as a substitute. [/b]
All in all, my trip to hear Mlle Grimaud involved an hour-long drive to and from Disney Hall, so I was enormously disappointed to only get to hear 20 minutes of music.

Were another pianist to have finished the recital, while I certainly would have been disappointed to not have seen the artist I came to see, I'd at least have been satisfied that I wasn't forced to cut short my "big night out"-- a luxury I rarely afford myself anyway with the sort of schedule I maintain.

At least I know I have a claim to a voucher for two tickets to a concert next season. But if the voucher doesn't apply to the Colburn Celebrity Recital Series and/or doesn't allow me to claim the same two seats that I had purchased for my 2006-2007 subscription I'll be pretty frustrated. mad


(PS: I just noticed that I incorrectly identified Mlle Grimaud as 'Mme Grimaud' in my previous posts!)

Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516218
06/25/07 02:57 PM
06/25/07 02:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,618
Geneva, Switzerland
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
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Matthew:
I just noticed that I incorrectly identified Mlle Grimaud as 'Mme Grimaud' in my previous posts!

Many French women over 35 often refer to themselves as Mme, regardless of their marital status. So I wouldn't beat yourself up about it too much wink .

-Michael B.


There are two rules to success in life: Rule #1. Don't tell people everything you know.
Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516219
06/25/07 03:06 PM
06/25/07 03:06 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,674
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Matthew D. Blackmar:
All in all, my trip to hear Mlle Grimaud involved an hour-long drive to and from Disney Hall, so I was enormously disappointed to only get to hear 20 minutes of music.

Were another pianist to have finished the recital, while I certainly would have been disappointed to not have seen the artist I came to see, I'd at least have been satisfied that I wasn't forced to cut short my "big night out"-- a luxury I rarely afford myself anyway with the sort of schedule I maintain.

Well, I wouldn't be too hard on the management for your disappointment. Mlle Grimaud was scheduled and did show up for the recital, so I wouldn't expect the management to have a replacement ready to take over in this particular case.
With due respect I would suggest that you try to look at this with a broader perspective: There may well have been patrons who came to Disney Hall from out of town to hear the concert and with their (possible) hotel and meal expenses and travel time, they would have a great deal more to be disappointed about, I would think, than you do.
And Grimaud? She suffered what may have been a major health crisis, don't forget.
Quote
At least I know I have a claim to a voucher for two tickets to a concert next season. But if the voucher doesn't apply to the Colburn Celebrity Recital Series and/or doesn't allow me to claim the same two seats that I had purchased for my 2006-2007 subscription I'll be pretty frustrated. mad

It seems to me that the management is doing what it can to reasonably cope with the problems they must face following the failure of Mlle Grimaud to complete her obligation. Being pretty frustrated if you don't get the "same two seats" for the replacement seems to me to be demanding a lot. What if those "same two seats" have already been booked by another subscriber for next year?
Why not contact the management of Disney Hall and see what they can tell you, instead of building up frustration which may not be necessary?

Just trying to help ....

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516220
06/25/07 03:51 PM
06/25/07 03:51 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 33
Claremont, CA
Music Student Offline OP
Full Member
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Quote
Originally posted by BruceD:
Quote
Originally posted by Matthew D. Blackmar:
[b]All in all, my trip to hear Mlle Grimaud involved an hour-long drive to and from Disney Hall, so I was enormously disappointed to only get to hear 20 minutes of music.

Were another pianist to have finished the recital, while I certainly would have been disappointed to not have seen the artist I came to see, I'd at least have been satisfied that I wasn't forced to cut short my "big night out"-- a luxury I rarely afford myself anyway with the sort of schedule I maintain.

Well, I wouldn't be too hard on the management for your disappointment. Mlle Grimaud was scheduled and did show up for the recital, so I wouldn't expect the management to have a replacement ready to take over in this particular case.
With due respect I would suggest that you try to look at this with a broader perspective: There may well have been patrons who came to Disney Hall from out of town to hear the concert and with their (possible) hotel and meal expenses and travel time, they would have a great deal more to be disappointed about, I would think, than you do.
And Grimaud? She suffered what may have been a major health crisis, don't forget.
Quote
At least I know I have a claim to a voucher for two tickets to a concert next season. But if the voucher doesn't apply to the Colburn Celebrity Recital Series and/or doesn't allow me to claim the same two seats that I had purchased for my 2006-2007 subscription I'll be pretty frustrated. mad

It seems to me that the management is doing what it can to reasonably cope with the problems they must face following the failure of Mlle Grimaud to complete her obligation. Being pretty frustrated if you don't get the "same two seats" for the replacement seems to me to be demanding a lot. What if those "same two seats" have already been booked by another subscriber for next year?
Why not contact the management of Disney Hall and see what they can tell you, instead of building up frustration which may not be necessary?

Just trying to help ....

Regards, [/b]
Bruce D, thanks for your thoughts.

My mad emoticon was, in fact, a little exaggerated. laugh
I fear that my previous posts have given the wrong impression-- that I'm unduly self-absorbed in my reaction to last week's events.

To clarify:
I admire Mlle Grimaud very much and I'm very much concerned about her condition and wish her a speedy recovery.

I have an enormous respect and admiration for the LA Philharmonic as an institution and every year I channel this into my very modest annual subscription and my even-more-modest annual charitable contribution.
I agree wholeheartedly that the administration handled this unexpected turn of events very admirably. That having been said, offering a voucher for two tickets for a concert next season with the caveat that "certain restrictions may apply" is not nearly as gracious an attempt to rectify the situation as a full refund would have been.

But you're absolutely right that this is an issue I should take up with them, not Piano World! laugh

Nevertheless, I'd also like to clarify that I did not intend to indict the LA Philharmonic for not keeping another pianist "waiting in the wings" to sit in for Mlle Grimaud; rather I hoped to open up a general discussion about why this common practice elsewhere in the performing arts does not apply to solo piano recitals.

Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516221
06/25/07 05:54 PM
06/25/07 05:54 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,886
San Francisco
whippen boy Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Ragnhild:
whippen boy : I hope that among the 14 encores there will be a dance number wink
No, that would be a tragedy - followed by the mysterious disappearance of the audience. :p


M&H "A" at home
Bösendorfer Imperial
Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516222
07/05/07 04:31 PM
07/05/07 04:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 8
Beethoven Virus Offline
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I'd like to say that its a horrible atrocity that you think I am the same as crazydude86. His grammar and sentence structure are very poor and he does not sound like me at all. I will admit he IS a friend of mine but we simply joined the forums together at the same time.

I tend to agree with his opinions (not always) so its not really a surprise that we say similar things.

In any case, my opinion is still that if you perform piano for a living its important that you, you know, actually perform.

Re: Helene Grimaud's mysterious disappearance #516223
07/06/07 10:36 AM
07/06/07 10:36 AM
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CherryCoke Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Beethoven Virus:



In any case, my opinion is still that if you perform piano for a living its important that you, you know, actually perform.
Have you been paying attention? Heart arrhythmia? Not something to mess around with. Practice a little empathy.

Andre Watts just cancelled a series of concerts after falling down some stairs, injuring his hands and back. Murray Periah canceled a series of concerts due to a finger injury. Grimaud is having serious medical issues, related to her heart (serious enough to have a visit from some EMTs backstage). Sh!t happens, to musicians and to all professionals. Get over it.

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