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Etudes for chords practice #515600
05/27/03 09:07 AM
05/27/03 09:07 AM
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benedict Offline OP
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Do you know Etudes that are both beautiful and help to develop fluency in 4 or five notes chords at both hands ? confused


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Re: Etudes for chords practice #515601
05/27/03 09:40 AM
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Benedict - ssshhhhhh.. when I first joined the forum I was berated for talking about the wonderful etudes. I think they are phenominally worthwhile. Lots of people study them after they already know how to play the piano.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
Re: Etudes for chords practice #515602
05/27/03 10:28 AM
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benedict Offline OP
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Apple, I do not mean Chopin's Etudes but any Etude (or study) to improve my poor reading/practice of chords.

I haven't seen any in Chopin's Etudes that seemed to adress this skill.


Benedict
Re: Etudes for chords practice #515603
05/27/03 10:48 AM
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sorry Benedict I interpret the world according to my own experience. All etudes are fun for me. Chopin's are funnest and best!


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
Re: Etudes for chords practice #515604
05/27/03 11:23 AM
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benedict Offline OP
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Nothing wrong with being in love with Chopin's Etudes.

[Linked Image]


Benedict
Re: Etudes for chords practice #515605
05/27/03 11:48 AM
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Meera likes the Rach C# Minor Prelude (and you can play the first part and the last part as slowly as you like!) wink

Re: Etudes for chords practice #515606
05/27/03 01:20 PM
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Thanks Shantinik


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Re: Etudes for chords practice #515607
05/27/03 01:45 PM
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In Debussy's etude set, he has one specifically for chords. You might want to check that out.

Re: Etudes for chords practice #515608
05/27/03 01:48 PM
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I will.

Thank you.


Benedict
Re: Etudes for chords practice #515609
05/27/03 03:57 PM
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What about Wild Chase, Liszt transcendental study number eight ? Plenty of chord practice in that one. It's also musically balanced because of its particularly nice contrasting section.


"We shall always love the music of the masters, but they are all dead and now it's our turn." - Llewelyn Jones, my piano teacher
Re: Etudes for chords practice #515610
05/27/03 07:43 PM
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Benedict - all the Christian/Catholic church music I play has the chord name (like B# minor)(and I know that's not a common chord) written above the registers. It's super handy. Modern silly rock music, written for either guitar or piano in the same book does the same thing. Most of those songs are so easy to pick up.... and the chord name is written as you play the notes.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
Re: Etudes for chords practice #515611
05/27/03 07:58 PM
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Ooops. Have I misinterpreted again ? I thought you meant studies for the physical playing of chords. If you mean studies for understanding chord patterns and types, then that's an entirely different matter. If you mean this latter then just write your own and learn in the process.


"We shall always love the music of the masters, but they are all dead and now it's our turn." - Llewelyn Jones, my piano teacher
Re: Etudes for chords practice #515612
05/27/03 08:18 PM
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Sorry Ted, it must be the rarified air in the upper hemisphere that's making me think unclearly.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
Re: Etudes for chords practice #515613
05/27/03 08:38 PM
05/27/03 08:38 PM
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Some czerny etudes are good for chord playing. They're not particularly beautiful, but are good for technique. I'm not sure which ones you need, but you should browse through them.


"If music be the food of love, play on." -William Shakespeare
Re: Etudes for chords practice #515614
05/28/03 03:47 AM
05/28/03 03:47 AM
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benedict Offline OP
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Tom,
Quote
Ooops. Have I misinterpreted again ? I thought you meant studies for the physical playing of chords.
You didn't misunterpret. My question was about sightplaying the damn chords as they are written.

I find my training with Pischna and scales and Chopin Etude 1 has helped me tremendously to read polyphony (horizontal reading) but none at all for vertical reading.

I have found that practicing exercizes in all scales without giving any attention to the musical quality has been a very powerful training.

Now, I want to do the same training with chords, plenty of chords, but in a sort of systematic way.

I suppose I could follow Ryan's advice and write cadences with 5 notes chords on each hand and transcribe it into all keys.

I find that training in the morning in developing my reading skill allows me to signtread jazz and folk-songs in the evening slightly at the level under the one I reached in my training.

I would like to find a way to combine the physical sightreading of chords and the harmonic training so as to understand more what I play and improvize.

I wish I had been trained like this by any of the 7 teachers who taught me not to play the piano.

I am, in fact, a world expert in not playing the piano.

laugh

I hope this treasure will turn out to be helpful by other people who practice the noble art of not playing the piano.

smile


Benedict
Re: Etudes for chords practice #515615
05/28/03 10:27 AM
05/28/03 10:27 AM
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I agree with Apple - purchase a hymn book. Hymns are simply chords, written as 4-part chorales. The great thing about chorales is that you learn to read the chords vertically and horizontally. Now this won't be 5 note-per-hand stuff, but I think it will be be helpful as a starting point.

Re: Etudes for chords practice #515616
05/28/03 10:41 AM
05/28/03 10:41 AM
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Can you recommend one ? As I live in Paris, I do not think I can get one in a music shop.

I shall have to order one through the Net.

confused


Benedict
Re: Etudes for chords practice #515617
05/28/03 02:28 PM
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Benedict - try what I sent you before you buy something.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
Re: Etudes for chords practice #515618
05/28/03 03:57 PM
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Thank you very much Apple.

I love the "Love Divine, All Loves Excelling".

That is exactly what I need.


Benedict
Re: Etudes for chords practice #515619
05/29/03 04:36 AM
05/29/03 04:36 AM
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Benedict,

I would recommend the "New English Hymnal"

It is the standard in English Anglican cathedrals and packed full of the best 4 part hymn tunes. I would be very surprised if it wasn't the hymnal used at your daughter's Oxford college.

It doesn't have chord names as suggested by apple however, but I think it will suit you perfectly. There may be a few tenths in the LH as already discussed, but you can move the bass line up an octave and play a 3rd between thenor and bass instead of the tenth.

These hymns are a lot less rich than the Bach chorales in a harmonic sense and there are also much less auxilliary/passing notes. I.e. just a series of block chords. They will provide good studies in playing chords, particularly as a primer to the Bach chorales!

As someone has pointed out, you can read horizontally and vertically so try both. View the pieces as a series of chords (vertically) and also as 4 lines of music (horizontally).

However, be aware that the soprano has the tune, the bass defines the harmony, and the middle two (alto, tenor) fill in the notes of the chord. As a result, alto and tenor have quite boring, static lines in a melodic sense. If they move around too much they can cause problems. As my old harmony teacher used to say in his chorale class: "a good tenor line is a boring tenor line". Of course, this only applies to 4-part hymns/chorales!

I haven't forgotten about the chorale snippet Benedict. It is on its way!

Richard

Re: Etudes for chords practice #515620
05/29/03 04:39 AM
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Here is the NEH at amazon.fr:

http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/AS.../sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_0_1/402-7735774-2654505

You need the full music and words edition, otherwise you will just get the melody line.

Re: Etudes for chords practice #515621
05/29/03 05:43 AM
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Thank you ever so much Richard.

I have ordered the New Hymnal through Amazon.

Your help is very precious.

After one evening of reading Apple's choral, I now sightread with voices that sing separetely. This is really such a rich experience.

smile


Benedict
Re: Etudes for chords practice #515622
05/29/03 08:23 AM
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Actually Benedict, there are many advantages to learning hymn after hymn after hymn. There is something about playing "in chords" as an accompaniment. There is a totally different technique that once learned is beneficial to all playing. The songs are so short,and readable' they provide excellent sight reading skills' practice - and in different keys.

In most of my indeces (is that the correct Latin plural for index?) the original "tunes" are listed and all the songs that sprung from those tunes are under the heading. For instance the "Love Divine,,,,," was originally Hyfrydol. "Tunes" that have been sung repeatedly by different congregations and with different words have the most entries. They have withstood the test of time and might be worth learning first. i.e. "The Old Hundredth" spawned hundreds of praise hymns. Many of those "tunes" were written or transcribed by original master composers.

Can you tell I like church music? I do. Hope you have fun. See if there is "Finlandia" by Sibelius. I love that melody.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
Re: Etudes for chords practice #515623
05/29/03 09:40 AM
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No, apple, indeces is not the Latin plural of index; indices is (i, not e, after the d). But indexes is probably the more common spelling used among speakers of English.

(I'm a retired editor, and one of the jokes in our office was that we probably should write the plural of Kleenex as Kleenices.)

Where would I find the hymn that you sent to benedict? I like chords, too....

Re: Etudes for chords practice #515624
05/29/03 10:01 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by NorthAmerican:


Where would I find the hymn that you sent to benedict? I like chords, too....
in your mailbox! (it seemed indeces was spelled wrong) Would you believe I took 4 yrs. of Latin? My father taught it and we actually spoke it at the dinner table when we were little. (we spoke, my father corrected)


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
Re: Etudes for chords practice #515625
05/29/03 11:49 AM
05/29/03 11:49 AM
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Quote
Would you believe I took 4 yrs. of Latin? My father taught it and we actually spoke it at the dinner table when we were little. (we spoke, my father corrected)
I laughed when I read that, because my grandparents were Russian, and they taught my brothers and me to say "I'm going to wash" and "I'm going to bed," both of which caused them and their friends to burst out with laughter and applause when we said them. I'm not sure to this day if it was because little Americans were speaking passable Russian, or if it was really that we spoke it so badly, but I did love the applause!

Thanks, apple, for the music, and for including the "Ode to Joy."

And thanks, too, to virtuoso_735 and shantinik. I hadn't looked at my Czerny for almost 50 years, and there are some nice chord practices there; and as to the Rachmaninoff, I used to play that prelude when I was young -- I'll have to dig that music out, too.


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