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Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506670
06/23/07 07:20 PM
06/23/07 07:20 PM
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Tenuto Offline
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I vote you listen to the Six Moments Musicaux for piano, also by Rachmaninoff. Get a recording of Ruth Laredo playing them. I've been in love with them for decades.

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Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506671
06/23/07 07:48 PM
06/23/07 07:48 PM
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somewhere in the space-time co...
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somewhere in the space-time co...
I think enough has been said already. I truly don't dig Rachmaninoff (or Tchaikowsky for that matter) at all.


gggEb!
Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506672
06/23/07 09:16 PM
06/23/07 09:16 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by pianoid:
I think enough has been said already. I truly don't dig Rachmaninoff at all.
Then why bother contributing to this topic in the first place?


Jason
Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506673
06/23/07 09:19 PM
06/23/07 09:19 PM
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New York
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The Warsaw Concerto is great.


working on:
Goldberg Variations
Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506674
06/24/07 06:16 AM
06/24/07 06:16 AM
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JBiegel Offline
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The 'Warsaw' Concerto is a delightful offering for pianists to include in their repertoire for that certain occasion. I was actually asked to pair it with Litolff's Scherzo for an engagement. I have also paired it with Rhapsody in Blue or the Leroy Anderson Concerto. It's a piece with lovely melodies that many people knew well when Liberace made it famous--he was indeed a wonderful pianist--fleet fingers, style, bravura, etc. He appealed to the masses with his extra color and clothing, jewelry--his $$ shtick. But he filled concert halls and made people happy.

First time on this post--there's no match for Rach 2 any more than there is for Beethoven 4. Two totally separate entities with different things to offer. Like a good book or a movie.

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506675
06/24/07 07:33 AM
06/24/07 07:33 AM
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Ian C. Williams Offline OP
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JBiegel: "First time on this post--there's no match for Rach 2 any more than there is for Beethoven 4. Two totally separate entities with different things to offer. Like a good book or a movie."

I thank you for your impartial ideas, unbiased and intelligent! I have just found a recording of the Warsaw Concerto, and am about to chuck it on my player.


Liszt, Chopin, Rachmaninov, Satie, Debussy.. the names of the hallowed.
Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506676
06/24/07 11:22 AM
06/24/07 11:22 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 68
New York
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Quote
I am sick and tired of you whinners on the rach 2 or rach 3... Its not taht great its just a bunch of notes written out. Rachmaninov had no clue what he was doing and doubted himself all the time. n He was no great artist didnt pioneer anything. Beethoven was a pioneer he didnt think out of the box, he didnt care that there was a box.
This is the great thing about music though, isn't it?

Generalizations and 'public' opinion of any given piece of work are simply irrelevant, because the ONLY thing that mattera about music is how it affects you as a listener on an individual basis.

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506677
06/24/07 11:48 AM
06/24/07 11:48 AM
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Posts: 1,099
Toronto, Canada
Theowne Offline
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Why would someone feel embarrassed to like a certain piece of music?


http://www.youtube.com/user/Theowne- Piano Videos (Ravel, Debussy, etc) & Original Compositions
音楽は楽しいですね。。。
Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506678
06/24/07 11:54 AM
06/24/07 11:54 AM
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Singapore
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go listen to Schumann's concerto in a minor
http://www.classicalarchives.com/schumann.html


Mastering:Chopin Etudes op.10 nos.8&12 and op.25 no.1, Chopin Scherzo no.4 in E major op.54, Mozart Sonata in B flat major K.333& Khachaturian Toccata
Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506679
06/24/07 12:19 PM
06/24/07 12:19 PM
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phonehome Offline
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The Warsaw Concerto?!?! You bunch of sissy girls!!!

I discovered my love for piano when I was three years old. My mother was listening to a Fantasia on themes from Pierrot Lunnaire and I just loved it. After I heard it, I ate 300 rusty nails and washed them down with straight scotch. I am SO much cooler than all of you.

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506680
06/24/07 12:29 PM
06/24/07 12:29 PM
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Posts: 341
Evansville, Indiana
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Quote
Originally posted by THeowne:
Why would someone feel embarrassed to like a certain piece of music?
I think it is because that sometimes, we feel we should be more philisophical or what not. Not sure if I am using the right word. And we feel bad when we like pieces that are "popular" or more used for show. It makes us feel less sometimes. Of course this is just my opinion on the matter

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506681
06/24/07 03:15 PM
06/24/07 03:15 PM
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JBiegel Offline
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Yes, phonehome, but just think of the bills that get paid from the Warsaw Concerto and NOT from the Fantasia from Themes from Pierrot Lunaire!!!!!!!(Just kiddin')

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506682
06/24/07 03:48 PM
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If you have money to pay your bills you're not a real musician. End of story smokin

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506683
06/24/07 04:36 PM
06/24/07 04:36 PM
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Geeesh - you guys - Rach II sure does stir up a lot of emotions out there... cool

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506684
06/24/07 06:13 PM
06/24/07 06:13 PM
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JBiegel Offline
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Rach 2 pays the bills too!! (hehe)--Rach 3 pays more bills--more notes to play.

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506685
06/24/07 06:20 PM
06/24/07 06:20 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by JBiegel:
Rach 2 pays the bills too!! (hehe)--Rach 3 pays more bills--more notes to play.
There was a topic about this recently (loosely) - I can't remember exactly but it was just shy of 30000 notes with the longer cadenza. I imagine you wouldn't get 30000 'notes' for a performance though smokin

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506686
06/24/07 06:20 PM
06/24/07 06:20 PM
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Phonehome, I usually don't post off-topic comments (I usually just don't post), but your post was a post worthy of posting, to put it obtusely. smile

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506687
06/24/07 06:52 PM
06/24/07 06:52 PM
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JBiegel Offline
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Depends on the orchestra---

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506688
06/24/07 07:29 PM
06/24/07 07:29 PM
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argerichfan Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by phonehome:
My mother was listening to a Fantasia on themes from Pierrot Lunnaire and I just loved it.
You don't perhaps mean Thomas Tallis for Pierrot Lunaire, do you? I cannot find any reference to a fantasy on the Schoenberg work. Not that I would care, anyway. The Vaughan Williams work, however, has been a portal for many to enter the glorious world of classical music.

Its premiere at Gloucester Cathedral in 1910 caused quite a stir, coming just before a major British choral work that was starting to sound a bit dated. (At least at that time.)


Jason
Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506689
06/24/07 11:29 PM
06/24/07 11:29 PM
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phonehome Offline
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Argerichfan I was being facetious. I've never even listened to Pierrot all the way through.

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506690
06/24/07 11:34 PM
06/24/07 11:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 517
New Zealand
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yok Online content
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Ian, being a synaesthete you probably know Scriabin's youthful concerto. Others that may be to your taste, if you don't already know them, are the Brahms D minor, the slow movements of the Shostakovich, and the Arthur Bliss.

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506691
06/25/07 07:19 AM
06/25/07 07:19 AM
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Ian C. Williams Offline OP
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It's hard to classify things which may be to my "taste". If you are referencing those because they have some perceived relation to synaesthesis, it may not be the same for me as for you. If you are simply recommending them on the basis that they're emotional and awesome, then that's more logical, perhaps!

I shall seek them out either way.


Liszt, Chopin, Rachmaninov, Satie, Debussy.. the names of the hallowed.
Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506692
06/25/07 08:37 AM
06/25/07 08:37 AM
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Singapore
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One of the favourite lines of attack on Rachmaninoff is that it nothing more than romanticised Hollywood rubbish and that it can't compare to the genius of Beethoven or Mozart. It's musical snobbery at its worst and, in the case of Rachmaninoff, betrays a complete lack of understanding of his music. Frankly, it's childish to argue who is capable of "real composition" -- we're not in the playground now.

To sum up Rachmaninoff's output as heart-on-the-sleeve music is entirely at odds with his recordings of his own works. His works repay closer inspection. In fact, his skill in composition lies further under the surface than the initially attractive (to some, sentimental) melody. Try the Variations on a Theme of Corelli and the Symphonic Dances for a glimpse of something rather more profound -- certainly more so than Fur Elise.

As for Rachmaninoff's gifts as a pianist, last time I checked, his recordings of Schumann's Carnaval and Chopin's Bb Minor Sonata are still considered among the finest, if not definitive. That's quite apart from his formidable reputation amongst the finest pianists of his day.

Finally, returning to the original topic of the thread, some other piano concertos that you may want to listen to include those by John Ireland, Shostakovitch (perhaps best known for the beautiful 2nd movement), Tchaikovsky (the First), Beethoven (the Fourth), Schumann.

But why restrict things to piano concertos? There's a wealth of great music out there. Tristan and Isolde may just send your brain into synaesthetic overdrive!

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506693
06/25/07 09:35 AM
06/25/07 09:35 AM
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JBiegel Offline
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Rach's shorter works ie Preludes and Etudes are wonderful--as Brahms wrote his shorter pieces, and Scriabin as well. Take a look and listen

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506694
06/25/07 09:51 AM
06/25/07 09:51 AM
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Several posts have mentioned British piano concertos. The Ireland is a favourite of mine, also worthy are Howells in C minor, Vaughan Williams and two by Rawsthorne. The Delius is a total bomb-out, and I wish I could like Bliss's grandiloquence better than yok, above.

Jeffrey: are the fees higher for Rach 3 than 2?


Jason
Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506695
06/25/07 10:29 AM
06/25/07 10:29 AM
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Romney WV
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Romney WV
Ligeti Piano Concerto

Ravel Piano Concerto

Schumann Piano Concerto

Beethoven's 4th

Dvorak Piano Concerto

(Im assuming were talking about piano concerti smile )

Those are some amazing concerti that are very emotional, colorful, and wonderfully orchestrated.

The Ligeti has sparks of life and dances that sound so joyful! And then desolate moments like in animal bleeding in the snow alone in the middle of winter. Amazing pianism, amazing orchestrating, amazing music, amazing rhythms, amazing contrasts, one of my favorite pieces!

Beethoven's 4th has always been my favorite. It sounds very graceful and organic. There is something about the range/key/soundworld that is a bit calmer and more 'watery' than the others.

I am not assuming these surpass any other piece. They have just always been some of my favorites, not because they are written 'better' than any particular piece or because they are technical, but because they speak directly to me. In my opinion, music is not a race to surpass one piece after the other... music has never been a competition for me.

If your in the mood for some new concerti, check these out!


"Beauty is unbearable, drives us to despair, offering us for a minute the glimpse of an eternity that we should like to stretch out over the whole of time."

-Albert Camus,

Jim
Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506696
06/25/07 10:35 AM
06/25/07 10:35 AM
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JBiegel Offline
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No--it depends on the orchestra-sometimes the Rhapsody in Blue pays better--go figure. Just now, Liebermann Third is the hot piece.

I remember hearing Stephen Hough breeze through the John Ireland Piano Concerto in Adele Marcus' studio--charming work!

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506697
06/25/07 10:48 AM
06/25/07 10:48 AM
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UK
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JBiegel – Came across your Chopin on youtube yesterday which I enjoyed. But why no pictures of your goodself? confused Just idle curiosity. wink

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506698
06/25/07 10:49 AM
06/25/07 10:49 AM
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Singapore
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Also, try Lou Harrison's concerto, in which the piano is tuned to even (hmm, should that be equal?) temperament. All of it is excellent, though the slow movement is a gem.

Re: A match for Rach II, anyone? #506699
06/25/07 10:53 AM
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JBiegel Offline
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Pianorak--it was only audio. I have someone toying with video of both Rach 2 and Prokofieff 3.

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