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Moi again. It has been said before in this thread, but still, my self the composer actually somewhat misses having a significant other who is also a performer. I mean, if I had a pianist significant other who appreciated my music, I could just write tons of piano music (which I really want to do regardless) and have a ready made champion! In terms of a composer-performer partnership, the Schumanns started out well enough I suppose. But Robert's retreat into his own subjective world ruined it, alas. From what I know, the Messiaens had a good, fruitful, and long composer-performer partnership (which overlapped with Olivier's first marriage, ahem, though that's a complicated story). One other thing -- it is too easy to assume that common interests/common temperaments make for an ideal relationship (the second self theory). That is only partly true. Too many similarities can bring about massive problems. There is also the "opposites attract" dynamic which also works -- yes, I've been there too. I think the "complement" dynamic is the most rewarding -- having enough things in common to be relatable, but also having differences, as well as differing "strengths" and "weaknesses" (to use the terms relatively) that one complements (or "completes," to use the more conventionally romantic term) the other. Man, I think I am taking this issue way too seriously. Isn't this supposed to be a lighthearted thread? P.S.: To any other cranks like me: maybe Brahms's Piano Trio No. 3 in C minor befits you too? A cranky product of a (relatively) cranky age. P.P.S.: Here's a nice little quote (from what I don't remember): "Have I considered divorce? Never. Murder? Often."
Die Krebs gehn zurucke, Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke, Die Karpfen viel fressen, Die Predigt vergessen.
Die Predigt hat g'fallen. Sie bleiben wie alle.
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Originally posted by Reaper978: On that note, real artists tend to be people utterly alone with their craft, and have little room for outside relationships. That may often be true of the most intense performers. Thankfully dedication and love aren't mutually exclusive. I'm thinking for example of Emanuel Ax, who frequently performs duets with his wife, the pianist Yoko Nozaki.
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Go for very long engagements...see if your "intended" attempts to draw you away from your "hobby" if so then they ain't the person for you! a few have tried..thats why I'm still single
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Such individualism... A very Western phenomenon.
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Originally posted by Antonius Hamus: Such individualism... A very Western phenomenon. That's a fairly... interesting comment. As far as I know, the Eastern philosophies center around emptiness, isolation, and meditation, hardly a "married with two kids, cute house, and an SUV" attitude. -Colin
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The Eastern philosophies you probably refer to are quite rarefied, and their mundane manifestations as some sort religions haven't really affected the social structures prevalent in the East, which have been based on extended families and a strong sense of ethnic interests. Rather, they were adopted to suit these already existing social structures and intuitions (and I do mean intuitions, not institutions). You can see this in the way marriage practices differ in the East from what they have long since been here in the West. In the East, marriage is used as a strategic tool in a manner similar to that when kings marry (or used to) their daughters & sons to potential allies/enemies. All of this has of course changed somewhat with the modernization of the Eastern countries. The West, however, was relatively individualistic already before the Industrial Revolution, especially its northern regions, such as Germany, Scandinavia, etc.
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I'm perfectly happy with my SO, who is not a pianist, but who comes with me to all sorts of piano-intensive music festivals, merely because I am performing there. I really lucked out.
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Believe it or not the biggest thing I struggle with going to conservatory and attempting to be a pianist is not the difficulty of it, or the overwhelming odds, or whether I am good enough....
The scary part is knowing that I CAN do it but that if I do, I honestly do not believe getting married will be possible.
This is sort of something I have always felt, and no matter how much I wish it wasn't so, I keep finding more and more evidence to back this up.
I'm not saying it is impossible to be a "successful" pianist and get married. There are two successful and rather famous teachers in my school who are married to each other.
What I'm saying is that I agree with Colin's assertion that the greatest artists are utterly alone with their craft. My teacher gave me an absolutely incredible book to read - the Spiritual Development of Beethoven. When I was reading it I got quite emotional because I had so many of the same thoughts. Beethoven very much didn't want to be alone, but it was his very alone-ness that helped form who he was and which made his music so powerful. I would go so far as to say that some of his music simply could not be written by a satisfied, untroubled man.
I look at Beethoven and I look at my teacher, who is absolutely one of the most intense (almost disturbingly so, but in a good way) performers out there right now. What makes listening to them so special is that you are getting an intimate glimpse of an utterly prodigous and immensely powerful personality that is normally alone. They are a very special breed of people and altogether unique.
Here at school, it is rather special for me, because for the first time there are a select few that understand. I can walk out of the practice room at 3:00AM and count on a small group of certain special people still being there too; still being utterly alone, taking comfort in music. Friday night, weekends, weekdays, it doesn't matter. Why? Becuase they need it. You can't exactly walk up to a random acquaintance or superficial friend and start talking about the mysteries of life and the joys and sorrows of living; they will look at you like you are crazy. So you are left with no other option but to explore them yourself - and what better way than through Bach and Mozart and Brahms and Beethoven?
What strikes me the most though, is that these people are the ones that long the most for communication. They are all incredible people, fascinating people - by far the most interesting to converse with. Once again, this is what sets them apart from an average pianist.
The bottom line is that if you develop your artistry to a level that is truly sublime, you can't help but develop yourself as well.
Once you've reached that point - that point which is special expressely because so few reach it - what are the odds of finding a "soulmate" that is capable of understanding you? Putting hundreds of thousands of hours into understanding the emotional and communicative aspects of music is LITERALLY putting hundreds of thousands of hours into understand humanity and yourself, and how many people actually do that? Hardly any! The odds are beyond ridiculous of finding someone who can understand a person like that at a fundamental level, which is what they wish for the most.
The sad thing is that even if I were to just give up an intensive study of piano and get married, I wouldn't be completely happy either, as something would still be missing. It is the proverbial "stuck between a rock and a hard place", and I am not sure which (if either), will bring me greater happniess in the end
Honestly, both marriage and being a pianist are vocations, pure and simple. I'm just not sure to which I'm called yet.
So to your answer, I would LOVE to be engaged to a pianist - one as dedicated as myself, as perhaps that's the only chance I have!
Shigeru Kawai SK7 Kawai NV10S Hallet & Davis 165
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Since uni -and all its attendant dodgy memories- is past history for me, I tend to connect more at the London clubs these days. What else is a young single to do?
But I met a cool bloke the other day who is a baritone with the choir at Westminster Abbey... very interesting conversation. Yet I also met a pianist several weeks ago, but after mention of Moonlight Sonata and Liebesträume that seemed to be the cap on his knowledge.
Rather frustrating, I say. No wonder some of us find a certain companionship on this board.
I have a number of valuable friends, but none of them really understand why classical music means what it does to me. On the other hand, I find myself keeping up with pop culture just by osmosis.
And I wonder if I'm unique on this board for not even owning a tv. How's about that, Colin? And you owe me a PM anyway...
Jason
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Hey argerichfan, I don't own a TV either. And I'm not trying to ingratiate myself to you, I'm serious!
Die Krebs gehn zurucke, Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke, Die Karpfen viel fressen, Die Predigt vergessen.
Die Predigt hat g'fallen. Sie bleiben wie alle.
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Originally posted by argerichfan: Since uni -and all its attendant dodgy memories- is past history for me, I tend to connect more at the London clubs these days. What else is a young single to do?
But I met a cool bloke the other day who is a baritone with the choir at Westminster Abbey... very interesting conversation. Yet I also met a pianist several weeks ago, but after mention of Moonlight Sonata and Liebesträume that seemed to be the cap on his knowledge.
Rather frustrating, I say. No wonder some of us find a certain companionship on this board.
I have a number of valuable friends, but none of them really understand why classical music means what it does to me. On the other hand, I find myself keeping up with pop culture just by osmosis.
And I wonder if I'm unique on this board for not even owning a tv. How's about that, Colin? And you owe me a PM anyway... I don't own a TV. No point as I don't even have enough time in the day without another distraction. Chopin > Desperate Housewives.
Shigeru Kawai SK7 Kawai NV10S Hallet & Davis 165
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Originally posted by Janus Sachs: Hey argerichfan, I don't own a TV either. And I'm not trying to ingratiate myself to you, I'm serious! Aw nuts, you took me off my pedestal... well hardly the first time! Good on ya, Janus. And we get our news via BBC, Al Jazeera, and International Herald Tribune? Heck, when I want to watch a DVD, the computer will do just fine.
Jason
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Originally posted by computerpro3: Chopin > Desperate Housewives. But when I'm in the mood: Chopin < QAF. Rather cryptic of me... :p
Jason
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Originally posted by argerichfan: Originally posted by computerpro3: Chopin > Desperate Housewives. But when I'm in the mood: Chopin < QAF.
Rather cryptic of me... :p There's a fair amount of scholars out there that think Chopin would greatly enjoy it! There is no such thing as "cryptic" when Google exists...
Shigeru Kawai SK7 Kawai NV10S Hallet & Davis 165
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Originally posted by argerichfan: Originally posted by Janus Sachs: Hey argerichfan, I don't own a TV either. And I'm not trying to ingratiate myself to you, I'm serious! Aw nuts, you took me off my pedestal... well hardly the first time!
Good on ya, Janus. And we get our news via BBC, Al Jazeera, and International Herald Tribune? Heck, when I want to watch a DVD, the computer will do just fine. Add the NY Times and Time Magazine websites as news sources for me, and yes, I have a particular fondness for the good ole BBC (having lived in London once). I don't know if this appeals to you, but this one-time America-dweller also has a fondness for another trustworthy news source: the Daily Show, which also has a website . P.S.: I don't own any DVDs either. Gave them away when I moved...
Die Krebs gehn zurucke, Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke, Die Karpfen viel fressen, Die Predigt vergessen.
Die Predigt hat g'fallen. Sie bleiben wie alle.
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Originally posted by computerpro3: Originally posted by argerichfan: [b] Originally posted by computerpro3: Chopin > Desperate Housewives. But when I'm in the mood: Chopin < QAF. Rather cryptic of me... :p There's a fair amount of scholars out there that think Chopin would greatly enjoy it!
There is no such thing as "cryptic" when Google exists... [/b]Along with Schubert, Saint-Saens, and Ravel, amongst others...
Die Krebs gehn zurucke, Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke, Die Karpfen viel fressen, Die Predigt vergessen.
Die Predigt hat g'fallen. Sie bleiben wie alle.
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Originally posted by computerpro3: What I'm saying is that I agree with Colin's assertion that the greatest artists are utterly alone with their craft. My teacher gave me an absolutely incredible book to read - the Spiritual Development of Beethoven. When I was reading it I got quite emotional because I had so many of the same thoughts. Beethoven very much didn't want to be alone, but it was his very alone-ness that helped form who he was and which made his music so powerful. I would go so far as to say that some of his music simply could not be written by a satisfied, untroubled man.
So you don't count Wagner and Bach as some of the greatest artists? How about Horowitz? Who said you need to be untroubled if you have wife and kids? And how about Beethoven and his nephew? I don't tend to trust Wikipedia, but since it for once happens to corroborate my delusional, know-next-to-nothing-about-anything-at-all views, here's a quote: "After Beethoven lost custody of his nephew, he went into a decline that led to his death..."
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I think that they had other things to draw inspiration from. Some people don't. Music is a very personal thing and of course it is going to be different for everyone.
Beethoven's relationship with his nephew was bizzare and not quite healthy. It wasn't simply the uncle doting on the nephew from what I've read; more like an obsession stemming from some other problem.
Shigeru Kawai SK7 Kawai NV10S Hallet & Davis 165
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Computerpro3,
I have high-functioning autism (Asperger's, see sig) which works to prevent me from fully connecting with people. This creates an unbelievable intensity to my music as I tend to feel alone whether in a group or with people. It is not a choice, it's just the way my brain works.
What you say about having interesting conversations and wanting to connect is absolutely true.
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Originally posted by Reaper978: I have high-functioning autism (Asperger's, see sig) which works to prevent me from fully connecting with people. This creates an unbelievable intensity to my music as I tend to feel alone whether in a group or with people. It is not a choice, it's just the way my brain works.
I've looked at the link in your sig so I at least have some idea what is going on. But I don't feel that you are entirely in this by yourself. Music has a very intense affect on me also (generally choral and organ over solo piano), and I also experience some of the problems you do. I don't see it as a matter of choice or the way my brain works, it's just my environment. I can become emotionally overwhelmed at an Evensong or organ recital, yet am embarrassed because everyone else just seems to be sitting quietly. Perhaps their "overwhelming emotions" are bottled up. But this is the killer: it's hard to find someone afterwards who wants to go out for a pint and discuss those musical experiences. That's where the sense of loneliness comes in. I generally enjoy my job, but just try to relate with anyone there about classical music. I might as well be talking to a brick wall. It's all sports... and if it were not for the fact that I read BBC before going to work, I would not have known about the Super Bowl. And yes, earlier this morning, there was some talk about this amongst a few American football fans. At least I wasn't totally out to lunch...
Jason
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
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