Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?

Steven - I thought I had hit upon a welcome idea. The reason that we participate here in PW is because of what we do in our real lives, namely playing and being involved in music. The information that we gather is information that we put to use in our real worlds. So one of us living in Italy, America, Ghana, China, Australia, Poland etc. might feel the need to talk about a certain composer or composition, but be clueless as to how that name is pronounced. I thought I had a brilliant idea - If we're an international community, then we have the experts right at our doorstep. The Germans could create audiofiles of German names, the Frenchman could do the same for French names, the Russians for the Russian names etc. I was excited about the idea. I did not expect it to create controversy or hard feelings.

To bring this to a close - I was actually just wondering whether there would be interest in creating a pronunciation guide done by those who have the matching languages.

They are?

Personally, I would find it useful. I don't see any anti-US-English bias here, just a resource people could avail themselves of if they so desired. I have no problems with German and Italian, but even though I studied French for some years there are some names (Poulenc being a good example, actually) where I hear a number of people with firm and differing views. POO-lunk is probably the dominant pronunciation in the circles in which I move, but Plunk and Poo-LENK have their strong advocates!

I think the accented syllable question is very interesting actually. Take a name like Hiroshima. I have been told that in Japanese the syllables are accented equally. Here in Australia we just don't seem to be able to do that, and there are those that hear equal accentuation as HirOSHima, and those who hear the same pronunciation as HIRoSHEEma. And I suspect it's because in English (or perhaps our Aussie version of it ) there aren't any words where we have equal accentuation, so when we hear one, our ears provide what isn't in fact there.

Aren't they? At least in the public school system afaik. Except for Quebec which is officially unilingually French which is another story.

keystring, I didn't wish to quash your excitement about having audio for foreign names spoken in their source languages. It is an interesting idea, and I think it would be pretty cool, too—but I also have a background in linguistics and an atypical interest level in all related areas.

I only meant to question its ultimate usefulness to the majority of English speakers, or, for that matter, speakers of any language whose sounds are significantly different. FWIW, I also think it's pretty cool to be able to pronounce foreign words and names authentically—but also realize that, unless one is conversing in a rarefied stratum of academics amongst whom authentic pronunciations are de rigueur, it's likely to be regarded as precious and pretentious.

Maybe that's a sad commentary on American culture, but I've learned to rein in the pedantry ... to try, anyway ... a little bit ... in my speech, at least.

Steven

Keystrings I have sent a quick PM to you, I don't wish to take the thread off topic.

Dave - got it - thanks.
Steve - might this also be cultural, with an internal culture from place to place? Because I had that discussion with my son when I pronounced Vivaldi the Italian way, (but with less of an ... erm ... cadence? to it) and he said it was pretentious. But Viv-awl-di sounds awful to my ear. So I assume that at the arts high school they must have pronounced it with the "awl". It's an interesting question.

Most of the music I do is with french speakers, and when I listen to classical music radio it's always in french. It's always POO-lank, but the n is very nasal and you have to kind of swallow the 'k': it comes from right at the back of the throat.

Regarding syllable stress in French, this should clarify why "Poulenc" (or any French word) would seem, in isolation, to be stressed on the final syllable but not necessarily otherwise:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_(linguistics)

Steven

As if further confirmation of JohnEB's first-hand experience were required, Poulenc is pronounced "pou-langk", rather than "-longk" (which is an approximation you often hear in England) and certainly not "-lenk" (?). Even in the south of France the only difference would be a more audible "n" rather than a change in the vowel.

Timbo77, I can't relate to "lang" and "long". Do you mean the "en" sound as in Jean, vente, temps, with a K at the end?

The "a" in "pou-langk" is the short "o"
sound in English, as in the word "on"--
or the "a" sound in the word "fawn."
The "o" in "pou-longk" is the longer "o"
sound in English, as in the word "longer."

Concerning earlier replies again . . . sotto voce, that audio clip is exactly what I mean; the one I dislike!

You don't pronounce the s at the end of Saint-Saens, and Hahn is not a French name, but your other examples are right. You will also find that the French are less rigorous with the rule, and will say the s at the end of fils, among many others.

This makes no sense to a speaker of Australian Engish, where the vowel sounds in the words "on" and "fawn" are quite different, and where the "o" sound in "longer" is not longer than the "o" sound in "on". Just so you know .

hopinmad, it's fair enough to dislike it. But you described the American pronunciation previously "a much stronger stress on the second syllable," and the audio clip doesn't represent that.

Steven

It doesn't?!?!?!?!

currawong, you are right, of course:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_English_low_back_vowels

I was going to post this earlier, but it's just not feasible to debunk all of Gyro's misinformation. You have to choose your battles, after all!

Steven

Not to my ears, anyway.

This is what I posted before, so I'll just say it again:
I hear primary stress on the first syllable and secondary stress on the second, just as shown in Merriam-Webster's transcription.

Steven

Seeing as we're hearing different things there it may be that I think what I mean then is a prolonging of the second syllable, in that clip you can hear it, and I'm used too no prolonging at all, and I think that's what I mean by the stress.