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Wind instruments are a different ball game.

Why are you asking? Are you trying to decide which instrument to learn next? Are you frustrated with your progress on a certain instrument? Are you picking up instruments with ease and wondering how many others have done the same?

That all are playing music gives them a lot in common. If you have a sound understanding of finger mechanics that will also go a long way. The problem with wind is the tone. As far as I know no one has rationalized that.

So your hand is only relaxed when hanging from your arm? That rasoning would lead us to say no pianist can play with a relaxed hand, as it requires the hand to be in a horizontal position, which is not "natural"

The hand rests on the keyboard (with relaxed flexors and extensors).

On guitar , arm rests on the body of the instrument if the position is correct.
All i 'm saying is that there is no way you cam attain a level of performance like the guitarists above if you re putting stress on your hands from wrong positions. In fact, classical and flamenco rh positions differ radically but both can be done with zero stress or injury risk ...

All I'm saying is to get to the strings you have to have your flexors tensed (bend your fingers) which is not the natural position for them and therefore dangerous if not carefully monitored. Check out how many guitarists have focal dystonia exactly in those fingers.

Thank you for elucidating, kbk. We're on the same page after all. You're right, his hands are not "relaxed" in the neutral and loose manner of hands hanging by the sides. What I meant is that there is a comfortable way of playing because he has learned how and I would think that he does not injure himself. There are numerous things that I see which he does, which he must have been taught and/or developed which allow for that ease of motion that I see.

The most important point is still that we have to learn to have a kind of setup that we don't put unnatural strain on our body, so that it can move in the best way possible for how we are constructed. Then we also have to learn technique which is effective or efficient which also prevents excess tension, and a host of other things which you'll know a lot more about than I can. In other words: a good instructor to lead the way, and not just aiming to play this or that piece impressively.

The emphasis is on good instruction, learning properly, in order to prevent such things as focal dystonia. In addition, you end up playing better. If I'm not mistaken, you believe similar things.

So, when 'Comparing a piano with guitar' - the piano you can have the natural shaped relaxed hand the guitar you can't.

If you're playing guitar with your flexors tensed, not only will you get injured eventually, you won't be able to play anything worth a darn. Certainly never to the level of those guys posted above. FWIW, the finger's natural position is curved, not straight.

There's a good reason why you place you thumb on the back of the guitar neck, leaving a space between your hand and the guitar neck. That space allows you fingers to work without being tensed up.

It's just like piano. Anyone who gets injured playing guitar is probably using poor technique.

Watch a guitarist (or better yet play a guitar) and then tell me his fingers are not bent as he plays.

Of course they are bent. They are just not tense. And FYI, I study classical guitar.

How do you bend a joint without tensing a muscle and having a stressed tendon? I know what you're gonna say next.

Hmmm, what shall I say next to satisfy KK's expert analysis from across the pond of what exactly I am going to say next? :rolleyes:

I'm sitting here right now typing this with my fingers bent over the keys. Not one shred of unwanted tension.

You only stress a tendon if you clench a joint.

OK, Mr. Psychic, tell me what I was going to say next.

You were going to say that there is tension and then there is unwanted tension (which is your real definition of tension). Which you did.

What gives me the idea that you just lifted that from my post?





I hate terminology.

A muscle not in a relaxed state (ignoring tonus for the moment) is tense. Anytime a tendon is attached to a tense muscle it is in stress. This is just physics. On a piano you can have, as I keep on saying, zero tension/stress before initiating key depression. On a guitar you can't.

By your definition of muscle tension (which I don't disagree with) you have tension when you play a piano key 'cause you gotta hold your arm in position to play the key!

I can tell you in no uncertain terms that if you are playing your guitar with the tension you are talking about, you are doing it wrong. You make it out to sound like you grip the neck as hard as you can. If you really have a notion like that, may I suggest guitar lessons?

I'm talking pickin' hand here! In placing your hand on the keys you have a small amount of tension in the biceps which hold the forearm horizontal. They can take it. The long tendons of the flexors make tension there undesirable until required. Guitarists suffer from dystonia in their right hand.

That's great, but your picking hand actually holds (for classical guitar) the most natural shape of either hand.

Also, I have never heard of any decent guitarist suffering from dystonia. Do you care to enlighten me?

http://www.dystonia-bb.org/forums/mwd/index.html http://www.markashford.com/engine/SID/1000164/AID/101536.htm http://www.musicianshealth.co.uk/research.html