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#478712 05/05/08 01:20 AM
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Leaps seem to be a particular weakness of mine -- somewhat compounded by my small span (I can reach only an octave and certain major ninths). Certain passages such as the main theme of the last movement of Brahms's First Sonata and the treacherous leaps just before the return to Lento in the Ravel Left Hand Concerto have always eluded me. Theoretically speaking, I know one has to limit the vertical motion and to not "stick" to the keys when doing leaps, but easier said than done in my case!

So, does anyone have any exercises (self-made or to be found in certain exercise books) to help facilitate leaps? At the moment I am doing a Hanon-type exercise where both hands (in similar motion) execute leaps at 16th notes at a certain interval, chromatically ascending then descending. At the moment I am leaping at an augmented 11th. Thus I have both hands playing C-F#-C#-G D-G#-Eb-A etc. at 16th notes (slowly increasing the bpm as the interval becomes easier).

Any suggestions for exercises focusing on leaps would be greatly appreciated!


Die Krebs gehn zurucke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
#478713 05/05/08 01:48 AM
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Hi, I have found it sometimes useful to quickly get off the start note and "feel" the keys under my fingers before sounding the 2nd note - needs a quick leap and practice to find the correct note.
Kylie

#478714 05/05/08 04:08 AM
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Generally speaking I'm a big advocate of mental practice and I find that leaps in particular are an excellent object lesson for this. To begin with, it helps me to be very mindful of my breath and approach something like a meditative state. Once I have control of my breath, I would make the (in this case) leap in my mind, concentrating on feeling the space of the interval bodily. It can help to start by visualizing it, but I think it should eventually be done by feeling alone and then finally by breath alone, so that striking any interval would bear no distinction from the act of breathing itself.

I find this also to be a very effective method of ear training.

That said, there are some excellent exercises by Liszt in the so called 3rd volume of his technical exercises.


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#478715 05/05/08 09:33 AM
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Pause on the note(s) before the leap. Mentally visualize the hand in the position when it is about to strikes the note(s) after the leap. Quickly move the hand into its visualized position. Pause a bit to make sure, then strike the note(s). Gradually decrease the pauses.

#478716 05/05/08 12:10 PM
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for quick jumps/leaps, my teacher once suggested that never try to position your hand at landing notes, because you don't have time, but think where to land before the jump.

#478717 05/05/08 01:17 PM
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It's all about the note before the leap. How well you handle the preparation, attack, and release of the preceding part determines the ease of the leap.

Also, make sure that you involve the arm. Fingers themselves do not leap, they need some help!


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#478718 05/05/08 01:26 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by signa:
for quick jumps/leaps, my teacher once suggested that never try to position your hand at landing notes, because you don't have time, but think where to land before the jump.
Most pianists think there isn't enough time to position your hand on the keys before pressing them, but good pianists do it all the time. Horowitz did it most of the time, this increases accuracy a great deal, and gives you control over dynamics, in opposed to just hurling your hand at the keyboard which leads to the fingers landing on usually the wrong keys, not to mention the harsh sound produced.

There are of course some extremely fast leap cases in which there is no time for both motions, but even so, when practicing these leaps slowly it's imperative that you find the keys first, this is essential for developing the necessary muscle memory, you shouldn't speed things up until you're absoulutely confident about the position of every single note in the chord.

Good luck


Currently Working on:
Beethoven : Piano Conerto No.2
Mozart : Piano Sonata No.6
Schubert : Moment Musicax No.3
Chopin : Black Key Etude
#478719 05/05/08 01:27 PM
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Currently Working on:
Beethoven : Piano Conerto No.2
Mozart : Piano Sonata No.6
Schubert : Moment Musicax No.3
Chopin : Black Key Etude
#478720 05/05/08 04:26 PM
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It's really boils down to mental practice and preparation. One of the things that helps is the exaggeration method. A teacher gave me this trick a number of years ago for handling large jumps in a piece.

Instead of aiming initially at the correct notes, go for the same notes an octave higher. Do this slowly initially then work up to speed. Once you've mastered the movement, aim now for the correct notes. In the process the mind will thing this is really easy compared to the "huge" leaps you were making in the beginning.

There's one caveat. Don't do this just before performing the piece because it will confuse the snot out of you.

John


Current works in progress:

Beethoven Sonata Op. 10 No. 2 in F, Haydn Sonata Hoboken XVI:41, Bach French Suite No. 5 in G BWV 816

Current instruments: Schimmel-Vogel 177T grand, Roland LX-17 digital, and John Lyon unfretted Saxon clavichord.
#478721 05/06/08 08:42 AM
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Thanks to everyone for all the replies. Herr Citron, I remember well the method you suggested when we discussed the Schumann Fantasy's middle movement. I'm nowhere near doing leaps of that scale, but I'll certainly try exaggerating the interval by an octave.

After trying some leaps on the piano, it seems like the problem is purely a matter of speed. I can find the notes just fine, but it seems like I need to prepare and release the note(s) before the leap correctly (as Kreisler said) if my speed is going to increase. I suppose I should try doing a "spring" release to start the leap, without doing too much vertical motion, of course.

Has anyone played the Brahms and Ravel passages I mentioned in my original post? Does anyone have specific techniques to help with those two particular passages?


Die Krebs gehn zurucke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

Moderated by  Brendan, platuser 

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