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#471242 - 05/05/05 07:34 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread  
Joined: Jul 2003
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t kachu Offline
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t kachu  Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Sviatoslav:
Quote
Originally posted by t kachu:
[b] Chopin is pronounced

show pah -you cut off the n sound a lot

Georges is pronounced

jurj -like splurge with a J

Scherzo is pronounced

skaird/t zo

appassionata is pronounced

passion with ah at the beginning and ahtah at the end

mein ami come les spices
It looks like that scherzo is pretty challenging here.
skaird/t zo - I don't know how to get it. I don't know how you intend AI to be pronounced but if it's a sequence of an a like in math and an i like the ee in teen, sorry but it not the right pronounciation.

I realize that we could go on for ever in this thread because the rendereing in writings of an actual pronounciation is always biased by different languages, accents, and inflections. So, could you please tell me if there is a simple way to upload somewhere a short audio file?
I can provide all of the Italian, French, and German words you may dream of. [/b]
It's almost like the spanish e

air (like what we breathe) = er in spanish

Scared or skaird, like afraid (the /t means that it can either be with a t sound or a d sound)

+

zo like Zoe Zone Zophar


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#471243 - 05/06/05 02:22 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread  
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Wim Offline
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Wim  Offline
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Belgium
Sviatoslav,

'Archduke' is an English word for 'Erzherzog', which was the title of the sovereign prince(s) of the former ruling house of Austria.

It's pronounced 'arch - dyook'.

The 'eux'-sound in 'les adieux' sounds like the Swedish 'ö'.

Wim

#471244 - 05/06/05 12:02 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread  
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signa Offline
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does 'arch' or 'ch' in Archduke sound like in 'Bach'?

i have no idea about how Swedish sounds, but i could guess how 'eux' might sound now.

#471245 - 05/06/05 01:53 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread  
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pianojerome Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by TS:
"Lé A-doo" I believe. With that french sounding "oo".
"Adieux" begins with a vowel, so you have to connect it from the 's' in "Les":

Lay-za-dyoo. ('oo' as in 'book')


Sam
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#471246 - 05/07/05 05:21 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread  
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SinspawnAmmes Offline
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Why can nobody pronounce Chopin right?

As residence French guy, I'll like to interject. "show-pan" is as bad as you can make it. It's like saying Bush as "Boousch".

Cho-pin, translated to French, would be "Show" (let the 'w' linger a bit, legato, not staccato), and "puhhn". If anyone knows some french, equate it to the french word for bread, "pain". If you don't know French (I can't believe I'm using this analogy), look to 50 Cent's new song, "This is how we do".

When he says the line,
"50, uhh, Bentley, uhh...", and etc., the last syllable of Chopin's name would be like that 'uhh', except with a 'p' in front of it. There should be a nuanced 'n' at the end though.

Edit:
Quote
Originally posted by pianojerome:
Quote
Originally posted by TS:
[b] "Lé A-doo" I believe. With that french sounding "oo".
"Adieux" begins with a vowel, so you have to connect it from the 's' in "Les":

Lay-za-dyoo. ('oo' as in 'book') [/b]
No no no no no no!!!! No offense, pianojerome, but adieu is pronounced nothing like that. Allow me to clarify. You are right about attaching the words, but Les wouldn't be "lay". Imagine the french word for milk, or think of the word "less". Take out the two 's' and say that. It's how you would say Les. The last syllabe of adieu would be the same as saying "eee-yuuuh", except really fast. The word in total would be "ahh-deee-yuuuh", all said super legato, a bit like the 'uh' in 50 Cent's song, but with more of a "u" inside. I can't really illustrate, since there's no English word that has that sound. The vowel collection 'ieu' always makes that 'eee-yuuuh", such as in "milieu" (middle), "mieux" (better), and more. Remember, 'ahh-deee-yuhhh', with a deeper 'u', not an "oo" sound like in book, but not an "uh" sound like in "50, uh, Bentley, uh". A bit in-between.

Edit again:
Quote
Originally posted by C.V. Alkan:
Yes it does. But it has that odd unique French sound.

Also, I've been told that in French, there is a specific way to pronounce "te" - as in "Le Morte." you do not necessarily pronounce the "e" but at the same time you do not entirely drop it. The sound comes at the end of the "t" very slightly - almost as if you put extra accent on the "t". Can any French speakers varify/correct this?
Sorry, I forgot to address this. 'Eux' is pronounced the same way "ieu" is prounounced, for some odd reason. Again, if I could record and upload, it would be much easier to illustrate, but I have SATs in 10 minutes...

About the 'te': Again, that 'uh' that doesn't quite sound like 'oo' but not like "50, uh..." comes in. Anytime you have an 'e' at the end of a word w/o an accent, it's silent, but not in the sense that you drop it. Instead, you extend the consonent BEFORE it. For example, 'mort' is the masculine form of "dead", and an adjective. Mort = 'morrr', with the 'r' rolled. There's something a slight 't' added. Notice, the last consonent isn't emphasized. "Morte" is the feminine. The difference is that morte = 'more' - 'teuh', with the 'tayeuh' thrown in very inconspiciously (MORE-teuh) The last syllable sound be almost invisible, and said extremely fast, so much that it shouldn't sound like there's a "tay" unless you speak in slow-mo. . In 'morte', the T is stressed, and French speakers naturally through the 'euh' in at the end. 'oo' > 'euh' > "50, uh".


Demi me, please!
#471247 - 05/07/05 08:16 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread  
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signa Offline
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very interesting! but i just don't really know how this 'uh' and even 'puhhn' sounds. it becomes really difficult to say 'Chopin' now: 'show-----puuuhhhn :rolleyes: ?

btw, i'm getting pretty good to say 'les adieux' now!

#471248 - 05/07/05 08:43 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread  
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Requiem Aeternam Offline
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Brooklyn, NY
You people just need to tune in to wqxr, if you dont have it in your area then go to wqxr.com. Look at their daily playlist and when you see a Chopin song tune in and see how the guy pronounces it, I forget as I have listened to them in a while but usually they pronounced it the correct way, for all composers, especially the french lady that does it at night I forget her name, she pronounces every composer's name exactly as it should be.


"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."
#471249 - 05/07/05 01:35 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread  
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SinspawnAmmes Offline
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Houston, TX
Quote
Originally posted by signa:
very interesting! but i just don't really know how this 'uh' and even 'puhhn' sounds. it becomes really difficult to say 'Chopin' now: 'show-----puuuhhhn :rolleyes: ?

btw, i'm getting pretty good to say 'les adieux' now!
Good job on "Les Adieux"!

The best help I can give you for 'Chopin' is as follows:

Tune in to your local internet/radio rap station. Or Yahoo Launch. Or anything that can get you overplayed, low-quality 50 cent tracks (aka everywhere). Look for the song "This is how we do", though it might be by 'Game', who is 50 cent's brother or something. Not sure.

When the line comes up about halfway through the song, when 50 says, "50, uh, Bentley, uh...", say it along with him. Say the 'uh' with the exact same tone. Draw it out the same way. Oddly, 50 cent accidentally made one of the most well-nuanced 'uh' out of any English speaker that I've heard in a while. Anyway, sleep with that 'uh', dream it, eat it, drink it. Then, add a 'p' in front, and a very slight 'n' at the end, almost like an afterthought (most Frenchies don't do it, kinda of like people say 'kinda' instead of 'kind of', but your choice). The 'n' isn't necessary, but the 'uh' is pretty important.

Another tip for 'adieux'. My cousin told me they do this at his school. Punch yourself in the stomach while trying to make a 'u'. Flex your abs until it hurts at the last minute. Your diaphram will contract enough to distort the 'u', and it usually comes out close to 'eux'. Don't punch yourself out though. It's wierd, because 'eux' is so common in French, yet it's nowhere in English, and the two languages are pretty close in most aspects.


Demi me, please!
#471250 - 05/07/05 03:11 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread  
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pianojerome Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by SinspawnAmmes:
Edit:
Quote
Originally posted by pianojerome:
[b]
Quote
Originally posted by TS:
[b] "Lé A-doo" I believe. With that french sounding "oo".
"Adieux" begins with a vowel, so you have to connect it from the 's' in "Les":

Lay-za-dyoo. ('oo' as in 'book') [/b]
No no no no no no!!!! No offense, pianojerome, but adieu is pronounced nothing like that. Allow me to clarify. You are right about attaching the words, but Les wouldn't be "lay". Imagine the french word for milk, or think of the word "less". Take out the two 's' and say that. It's how you would say Les. The last syllabe of adieu would be the same as saying "eee-yuuuh", except really fast. The word in total would be "ahh-deee-yuuuh", all said super legato, a bit like the 'uh' in 50 Cent's song, but with more of a "u" inside. I can't really illustrate, since there's no English word that has that sound. The vowel collection 'ieu' always makes that 'eee-yuuuh", such as in "milieu" (middle), "mieux" (better), and more. Remember, 'ahh-deee-yuhhh', with a deeper 'u', not an "oo" sound like in book, but not an "uh" sound like in "50, uh, Bentley, uh". A bit in-between.
[/b]
Heh, I always pronounce "milieu" and "mieux" with the "eu" sounding like the "oo" in "book" (mill-y-eu (eu as in oo as in book).

My French teacher is French and that's how she pronounces it... I've never asked her about "adieux", though.

Maybe it's between "uh" and "book", but I can't imagine it's just like "uh"!

But I could be wrong! :p


Sam
#471251 - 05/07/05 04:43 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread  
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SinspawnAmmes Offline
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Houston, TX
Your French teacher says 'eux' as 'oo'?

Is she Parisian? Some people near Toulouse say it that way, but it's considered "barbaric" French by us Parisian elitists!


Demi me, please!
#471252 - 05/07/05 05:56 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread  
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pianojerome Offline
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LOL.

Yes, "oo" as in "book" and "look" and "cook".

She's from the south of France. I forget the name of the village, but I think it's in the Pyrenées.


Sam
#471253 - 05/07/05 10:06 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread  
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SinspawnAmmes Offline
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Ahh, I see. Well, Parisian french is the one taught in schools, so who are you gonna believe? No pressure, I swear.


Demi me, please!
#471254 - 05/08/05 05:06 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread  
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pianojerome Offline
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laugh


Sam
#471255 - 06/15/05 07:31 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread  
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sorry to revive the thread, but how does one properly pronounce idil biret, evegny kissin and herbert von karajan?

i'm always wary of saying them, in fear of being the laughing stock

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