2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
42 members (Animisha, alexcomoda, benkeys, Burkhard, 20/20 Vision, AlkansBookcase, brennbaer, 10 invisible), 1,145 guests, and 318 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,983
C
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,983
I came across this gentleman's performance and detailed explanation of why he is playing this renowned piece so uniquely. I've gotta say that I like both his performance and the explanation he gives. Please see what you think:
a toatally different approach to La Campanella

P.S.- I also very much enjoy the sound of his piano for this piece.


Piano Technician/Tuner
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,837
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,837
I wish most pianists were as thoughtful.


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 959
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 959
For my ears the piece has lost all of its sparkling fire in this interpretation frown

I have a slow recording of Bolet at 5:12, which is very contemplative, but witty and crystal-clear, and with an infinite variety of dynamics and touch. These qualities are almost completely missing in this guy's recording (sorry to compare him with the masters, but if he claims all masters to be wrong, this is what he asks for...Richard Kastle syndrome?).

Ironically, he justifies his approach with faithfulness to Liszt's intentions. However, it should be noted that La Campanella certainly has an uninterrupted and very dense performance tradition. For example, I have a (Welte-Mignon) recording of Busoni (who could still hear Liszt playing in person), clocking in at 4:29, faster than many contemporary pianists.

Allegretto is not a mathematical description, but a feeling, and it refers to the basic pulse. This guy's playing sounds more like a march. Also, Liszt did nowhere indicate that the piece should be played robotic, without life and passion and with the same touch and dynamics throughout.

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Very nice! Thanks for sharing CC2; this actually sounds like I could play it. laugh

And great piano tone, too. thumb


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Remember that this guy made a disclaimer that he was not presuming to be better than the virtuosi:

Quote
Please do not be offended. I am not claiming I am a better pianist than your beloved heroes and idols, but merely pointing out that their tempos are not Allegretto.
That said, his complete rejection of rubato makes it a little too dry.


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,618
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,618
Feux Follets[1] is marked allegretto too wink

As pianovirus notes above, allegretto is more a style than a tempo marking. Charles Rosen remarks in his book on the Beethoven Piano Sonatas that even during his (LvB that is) lifetime, the speed of allegretti seemed to increase. He also makes the point that the 2nd movement of Op.54 (so marked) is nearly always played too fast, such that it loses its graceful character and the initial additional indications of dolce (which has more connotations that just piano) are lost too.

I can see this youtube pianist's point, and think it has a lot of validity. However his somewhat metronomic and expressionless playing did mean that even the allegretto feel was a bit lost to my ears. Perhaps in the hands of a different pianist an interpretation of this piece at a slower than conventional tempo would be more effective.

Michael B.
[1] Compare Arrau's appreciably slower recording compared to many others. However he still retains the playful, mischievous and cheerful feel that the composer undoubtable sought by the title, etc.


There are two rules to success in life: Rule #1. Don't tell people everything you know.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,799
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,799
It doesn't sound like an etude to me at that tempo. I think I listened to some of this pianists other recordings and they all sounded wrong to me.

Of course, it's *possible* that it's just that one becomes used to hearing a piece at a certain tempo.

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 378
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 378
I've looked into Cory Hall's (BachScholar) work regarding tempo in J.S. Bach's music before. Though I haven't read all of his documents on the matter, I have some concerns that some of the interpretations about the music might be fixed up to suit the claims. Music is not my specialty, so I don't have some of the necessary background to look into his ideas more thoroughly. Does anybody want to look into some of his work and post about it?

-Matt


Kawai K-3 (2008)
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,093
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,093
I always considered such things to be relative.

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,905
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,905
A thoughtful approach, perhaps, but as the proof is in the pudding, the results don't work for me in this performance. While other performers may surpass the Allegretto indication in the score to excess - which, as others have said, is relative - this performance has lost impetus and sparkle that this Etude needs.

It may not need (much of) an increase in tempo, but it certainly needs to come alive a little more. It needs to plod a little less at a rather steady, stodgy three-to-the-bar 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, and become more 1 2, 3, 1 2, 3.

It needs the three L's : lightness, lilt and life!

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,501
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,501
I rather like Gavrilov\'s Brutal Performance.
I particularly like the militant, rhythmic conclusion.


Amateur Pianist, Scriabin Enthusiast, and Octave Demon
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,799
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,799
Quote
Originally posted by Fleeting Visions:
I rather like Gavrilov\'s Brutal Performance.
For me that sounded a little rushed. I prefer Kissin's or Yundi Li's(both around 4'30" vs. Gavrilov's 4'00"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y9Wiqsd9xY

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 888
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 888
A little off topic, but this is Gould playing too slow! (Can you beleive this?)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R54fHB8Zny8

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,283
I
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
I
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,283
Came across this recently, i really like this version. Kemal Gekic.

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=DtS8Yrw12QQ

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 888
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 888
Quote
Originally posted by pianoloverus:
Quote
Originally posted by Fleeting Visions:
[b] I rather like Gavrilov\'s Brutal Performance.
For me that sounded a little rushed. I prefer Kissin's or Yundi Li's(both around 4'30" vs. Gavrilov's 4'00"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y9Wiqsd9xY [/b]
Kissin is 4 minutes actually... 5 seconds slower than Gavrilov.

BTW, those 2 performances are my favorite.

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 854
B
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 854
Kind of takes the life out of it at that speed. Can't really produce those 'ringing tones'. I like Rubinstein and Kissin best for their balance between technical precision/speed & expression.

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,501
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,501
Quote
Originally posted by GreenRain:
Quote
Originally posted by pianoloverus:
[b]
Quote
Originally posted by Fleeting Visions:
[b] I rather like Gavrilov\'s Brutal Performance.
For me that sounded a little rushed. I prefer Kissin's or Yundi Li's(both around 4'30" vs. Gavrilov's 4'00"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y9Wiqsd9xY [/b]
Kissin is 4 minutes actually... 5 seconds slower than Gavrilov.

BTW, those 2 performances are my favorite. [/b]
My sadistic pleasure in the Gavrilov is much like the Pogorelich Gaspard De La Nuit. (Not on youtube). Complete, total ownage. No respect for Ravel's markings, but what incredible playing!


Amateur Pianist, Scriabin Enthusiast, and Octave Demon
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,342
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,342
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwc-nmyPm4I

Lisitsa is 4:11 - and I really like her clarity.


M.


Mateusz Papiernik
https://maticomp.net
"One man can make a difference" - Wilton Knight
Kawai CN21 (digital), Henryk Yamayuri Kawai NX-40 (grand)
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 215
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 215
For a nice sound, also have look at

"La Campanella" played by Alicia de Larrocha available on youtube.

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,799
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,799
Quote
Originally posted by GreenRain:
Quote
Originally posted by pianoloverus:
[b]
Quote
Originally posted by Fleeting Visions:
[b] I rather like Gavrilov\'s Brutal Performance.
For me that sounded a little rushed. I prefer Kissin's or Yundi Li's(both around 4'30" vs. Gavrilov's 4'00"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y9Wiqsd9xY [/b]
Kissin is 4 minutes actually... 5 seconds slower than Gavrilov.

BTW, those 2 performances are my favorite. [/b]
Yes, I forgot to include the announcing of the encore and bow at the end. I think Gavrilov played the first statement of the theme a little faster than Kissin and that's what made me think he rushed it a little even though the times are virtually equal.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Brendan, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
How Much to Sell For?
by TexasMom1 - 04/15/24 10:23 PM
Song lyrics have become simpler and more repetitive
by FrankCox - 04/15/24 07:42 PM
New bass strings sound tubby
by Emery Wang - 04/15/24 06:54 PM
Pianodisc PDS-128+ calibration
by Dalem01 - 04/15/24 04:50 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,384
Posts3,349,173
Members111,631
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.