Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner I like Czerny, is that sick?

I studied the School of Velocity Op.299 in college. I've picked it back up and intend to learn the whole set now. It's really quite fun. The key is to play them FAST.

Nothing wrong with liking Czerny, it's actually a good thing. There are some very valuable things to be learned there. Carry on the good work, and I'll buy tickets to see you at Carnegie Hall in a couple of years.

When I visited the Fredericks Historical Piano Museum in Ashburnham, Mass., Mrs. Frederick commented on hte ongoing debate on the original metronome markings on some the etudes and the fact that some say they are "impossibly" fast and certain comentators have even suggested that were therefore must have been mistakenly trasncribed. But, she commented, that on pianos from Czery's time, which had much lighter action than today's modern piano, the impossible speeds suggested are in fact possible. She then went on to demonstrate, playing one of the etudes at a ridiculous velocity.

PS: I always enjoyed my Czerny studies, but must admit, I haven't opened the book for 25 years.

Kathy,

That's very interesting considering I'll be visiting the museum on Saturday 11/5. The other thing to is we have to remember is that the keys are a little narrower too. That helps in moving the hands around quickly as well.

Like everyone here, I actually enjoy the Czerny exercises as well. They are both musical as well as helpful.

John

I like Czerny as well, but I prefer Hanon.

Ok, I'll be the party pooper. I never liked Czerny. I either want to be working on a piece, or doing exercises. Czerny is the worst of both worlds. With Hanon you dont have to 'learn' a piece, just focus on the mechanics of technique. With Czerny, you DO have to learn to play the thing (although its been years since I've even opened them, so maybe I shold look again before spouting off).

But if I'm going to invest time and effort into learning notes, I'd rather be learning a real piece for performance like a chopin or liszt etude. If I want to spend time working on technique, then let me forget about notes and pay attention only to what my hand is doing, like with Hanon or scales/arpeggios.

So Czerny is the worst of both worlds in that you're robbed of the simplicity of just focusing on technical mechanics, and you're robbed of having a performance piece after all your toils to work it up.

But thats just me....

I'm with you, Sidhartha ! If I'm going to sight-read -- let me sight read some real music! Although I must admit that the Opus 299 has helped my technique. BTW, my teacher says that Czerny's "presto" markings should be ignored for the most part -- that whereas speed is something to "strive" for, it should not be the main point of these exercises....

Virginia (from Virginia)

I grew up with Duvernoy, Heller, Czerny and, at last, Cramer-Bülow etudes.

Some etudes might be musically interesting, like e.g. the etudes of Chopin, others are completely lacking any greater musical idea.

Surely etudes help to develop technique, but I find Sidharthas thougths very considerable.

In fact I nowadays practise Hanon, scales arpeggios and some of the excersices from "51 Übungen" by Brahms. For the rest I play real pieces, many of which also helps keeping up your technique.

Strange, I played Czerny on a concert today.
Anyway, Czerny is quite boring, but the key is to play them fast and make him interesting. Since, everyone plays them boring, people think he is. But he is not, and I really enjoy working on his etudes.

What a fun and diverse bunch of PsOV!

It is certainly not sick to play what you enjoy. You are at liberty to play whatever you wish however you please. There are no "shoulds" or "ought tos" about it.

Anybody besides me like Clementi?

You make some good points, but I have to comment: It doesn't take long to learn a Czerny study from Op. 299. If you reopen your book, and try it I think you'll agree. Most are two pages and in C, F or G. It doesn't take long before you able to focus purely on technique. Czerny is about strength and agility and relaxation. Chopin's etudes are on a whole 'nother level; they really aren't comparable. Chopin's etudes are as much about musical problems as technical, and the techincal problems are miles beyond Czerny; they're really only playable by well advanced pianists, whereas Czenry is accessible to the intermediate.

Also Czerny goes far beyond Hanon, scales and arpeggios. Plus they are more fun to play. The musical ideas are simple, so you can focus on technique, but at least they is "something" to play around with - harmony, rhythm.

I seem to be of two minds about this. I understand what you get out of Czerny, but so often I just want to play something arty with my limited piano time. Even if my technique suffers because of it.

On the other hand, my boyfriend plays Czerny a lot, and I like listening to it. Plus I'm figuring, when he finishes learning that Schubert sonana that he's gonna play for me, the Czerny's gonna help make it sublime.

Yes, I agree Chopin and Liszt etudes are a much more advanced level. I'm at that level now, but of course I wasnt always, which is when I was doing Czerny, true. I've never been a good sight reader, and always struggle with attention span issues, so for me, learning ANYTHING, no matter how simple, takes discipline. So even tho Czerny is easy to pick up, its still too much effort spent in the wrong areas for me, although I can see how not for others who dont have my particular issues.

I cant say I agree Czerny goes far beyond Hanon, scales, and arpeggios. Although perhaps I'm not clear how you mean that. Hanon offers exercises that deal with every aspect of a pianists technique, its complete in that sense, so what is 'beyond' that? Czerny adds in music on top of the technique, but I cant deem that better than Hanon.

Personally, I do prefer the way Hanon isolates a technical problem, free of distractions. I find that a powerful approach.

Hanon is like weight training, Chopin etudes are like playing sports. Czerny etudes are like using a sports simulator. I'd rather either be working out, or playing the actual sport. IMO.

I sure do.

I'm currently working on one of his piano sonatas. His music is very much like Beethoven's.

John

Well performed in fast tempo a Czerny ca be enjoyable. But I think you can achieve good technique with excersices that are simplier to learn by heart, e. g. Hanon and Brahm's "51 Ûbungen"

I was told by my teacher that Rachmaninov used to play Hanon's tremolo exercise as first thing in the morning. And I find some resemblance in the harmonies with orthodox choir music in it. Hanon's exercises should be transponed into all tunes. Then you have to struggle with black keys also.

Chopin himself used to forbid his pupils to spend much time on purely technical exercises.
His slogan was "Le tout ce est de savoir bien doigtier" = all is depending on a good fingering.

By clever fingering you overcome natural weakness of fingers. I have not yet played any of Chopin's etudes, but some of his other works. I am not to 100% using the fingers suggested by Chopin (or the publisher?).