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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 547
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OP
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How can anyone play this passage? How can an even, clear, rhythmic octave glissando be possible? How can this be played WITHOUT a glissando at a decent tempo?
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Practise. Just tuck your thumb under so you are playing with the side of your thumbnail, and put your weight behind your thumb, and drag the little finger across (same applies for both hands). The approach to them depends vastly on the piano you play it on. But I find using thumb nails (instead of your skin) makes it much more approachable. They're certainly not as nasty as third/fourth glissandos. It's also possible to play those as octaves, its not too fast a tempo to do it at, but it loses some of the effect.
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Posts: 547 |
I know people use two hands, but I think it messes up the sound especially in 467. I like the clarity of fast octaves (I'm sure I saw someone do it once at a phenomenal tempo, no gliss), I think it sounds better. Maybe I've just never heard a good octave gliss which is actually in time.
I find it very funny that Beethoven wrote in the autograph at 485 that if the trill+melody is too hard, then one can simplify it to triplet crotchets/quarters, and says nothing about the far, far harder passage preceding it!
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 173
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This passage haunts me as well.
My pinky always hurts when I try them using Max W's method. I've seen Arrau do the same on video. Maybe I just haven't gotten the technique down correctly.
So for now, I've just been doing it the "Horowitz" way using octaves :p . Doesn't matter too much for me as I only play for personal enjoyment (and on the odd occasion for friends).
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Use extreme rubato and play it in octaves :p
i thought i heard my washing machine playing Ondine
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 116
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If you insist on playing at A Tempo speed with one hand, practice with the thumb alone and do a one octave glissando. Do it with the thumbnail and once you perfect it, this time, use the pinkies.
Then when you perfect it, try it with both fingers. Then, both hands, until you can do it flawlessly. It may take a while, but you will get it sooner or later.
P.S: Do not push it too much or else you might injure your fingers.
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Joined: Nov 2006
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1.Do not "press", go FAST, never slow, it hurts and you will get stuck in the keys, very light, just on the surface of the keys!
2.Keep the thumb FLAT and stretched out to the left, using more surface, but start sort of sliding over the keys, very fast, very light, and in a 45 degrees. The version with the thumbnail is OK but the above mentioned one sounds better because you play PP and very lightly.
3. I studied in Moscow and they made me practice legato just with the thumb, sliding like a snake from key to key. White keys!
4.I have had several advanced students who got the glissando right after I explained it to them and demonstrated. Sorry guys, I wish I could make a video but I do not have the time for it. Maybe another time...
Conclusion: Fast, light, sliding over the keys like a landing airplane that weighs only 1 milligram and it does not go deep, it stays on the surface! As Neuhaus said: the weight of a matchbox.
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Many thanks for everybody's contributions. Having played the Waldstein (what a horribly difficult piece it was), I can only say: either find a way to do the octave glissandos or seek out something else by Beethoven. (But certainly not the 1st Concerto!)
I like what Tovey says: "...it is a mere waste of space to print any of the possible ways of getting the hands to share the notes. There are dozens of ways, all equally unsatisfactory..."
Jason
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Sorry to revive this somewhat old-ish thread, but I just wanted to mention I got the glissandi to work yesterday. Perhaps this might give the original poster some hope of conquering this passage.
I still have to work on stopping clearly once I start, but it's certainly getting somewhere, and it feels much more comfortable compared to before.
I used a combination of the tips from drudged and pianato, and it actually surprised me how suddenly it came together. I had been unable to do the left hand set, but after practicing with only the thumb a few times, it suddenly started working yesterday.
I still get kind of paranoid about accidentally applying too much force and hurting myself though, but it's getting better every time.
Merry Christmas to everyone by the way!
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
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