Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner musical talent vs hard work..

I have a question to pianists who come in to this forum. Which aspect is more important to be a pianist? Is it musical talent(personal ability) or hard work. For my case, I tried to major piano but I didn't have the "musical talent" and changed my major to musicology. Of course I practiced very hard but I gave up when my fellow students who prepared college piano exams with me were very gifted since it only took them like 1hour of practice, when I had to practice for 10hours. At that point, I gave up and I still don't regret the fact that I gave up to become a professional pianist and make career out of it.
How about you guys? What do you think is more important? Which aspect will you choose if you have a choice? Like the movie Amadeus,will you choose the musical talent like Mozart or a hard working sprit which is like Salieri. Which aspect will you choose if you have a choice?

You're inventing an either/or situation where none exists.

The obvious answer is that it takes both, but in my experience, it's the hard work part that people need the most. Put another way, I've seen more wasted talent than wasted work.

Nicely put, Kreisler.

Steven, you may want to check out the Daniel Levitin book called "Your brain on music." He has an entire chapter on the talent vs. effort debate, and he concludes that the vast amount of the variance (about 90%) in performance is accounted for by sheer practice and effort. I think you would find it interesting.

Kreisler is right. When it comes to getting to the highest levels, there is no substitute for innate talent as well as tons of drive and a strong work ethic. Also, add in luck, good connections, and an ability to tolerate the competitiveness of the professional music world.

Sophia

What I would suggest is that you return to
piano performance as a major. What appears
to have happened is that you've been
a victim of gamesmanship. One of your
fellow students, who may have been jealous
of your ability, told you that he only
practices for "1 hr." Since you practice
for 10, this completely disheartened you
and made you give up piano performance.
You've fallen for the oldest trick in
the book. This student probably practices
more than you do because he has less
ability than you, and he only said this
in order to get rid of you as competition
for him. You must still have your heart
in piano, since you're still in something
closely related to it, musicology. So
why not just get back into piano? Don't
ever listen to anything like this again,
or any kind of criticism about your
playing.

That's right Monica, even the Harvard Business Review is saying it's mostly about hard work and dedication. The 10.000 hour / 10 year rule comes up again and again.

http://harvardbusinessonline.hbsp.harvard.edu/b02/en/common/item_detail.jhtml;jsessionid=GTWU00NGH5DQSAKRGWDSELQBKE0YIISW?id=R0707J&_requestid=2497
(scroll down for article synopsis)

Thanks for that article reference, TheJourney; I'm going to look it up.

The abstract makes the important point that it's not just sheer number of hours of practice but what they term "deliberate practice," where you push yourself beyond your comfort zone and focus on attaining specific skills.

sophial also makes the important point that to reach the highest levels of performance, you need more than effort: talent AND luck AND factors that really shouldn't be relevant but are, like connections in the industry.

Pretty discouraging when you look at it like that, huh? Think I'll stick to my comfort zone...

This is yet another contender for the top-10 worst ever advice given on the pianist corner....

I would say rather that playing the piano at a top level requires the guidance of an expert teacher to provide tough, often painful feedback complemented by effective and deliberate practice.

Look at the preparation of someone who is labelled "talented" and you will see -- not someone who can magically play -- but instead the result of hours and hours of practice and being aware and open to critique for improvement from others.

It is a great article and came out this last summer. It has really been an eye-opener for me and for my clients to think about whether we are really pushing ourselves or rather coasting in areas we are already good at (polishing shiny surfaces in the practicopia-speak of author Philip Johnston)....

I agree that to reach the highest level of a career as a performing artist that it is all AND, AND, AND. Where LUCK and SERENDIPITY and TIMING and CONNECTIONS are more heavily weighted than any of our egos could stand to realize.

Liszt said that he never practiced less than 11 hours a day.

Do you think he was without talent?

And do you really think that Juilliard students practice only one hour a day?

Nonsense.


Mel

My teacher told me, when I first went to her, that I had talent but she didn't know if I had the capacity for hard work. She wanted me to quit school and do nothing but work on the piano with real concentration. I would have been willing but my parents were not. However, I did gain quite a bit from her anyway. I practised six to seven hours a day and made good progress.

She told me, also, that she would rather have a student who would work hard than one with talent who wouldn't really work.

Criticism--yes, one needs that very much. She would tell me NOT to listen to friends and family as they will compliment you when it really isn't deserved. You need someone to tell you that your playing is/was awful and help you correct it so that critics and audiences will appreciate your efforts rather than get bad reviews or comments. She advocated a well developed hand and mechanism, complete technical ability, VERY SLOW practice and serious concentration. Talent is undoubtedly an asset but it has to be nurtured, developed, and disciplined to achieve the higher levels to which many aspire.

I feel that talent only helps a if the student works hard on their own as well.

Well I graduated and am/have been conertrating only on piano for these 2 years either then getting my theory requirements done.

My teacher said that I do have the talent and yes i does help me but still I have to work as hard as i can.
haha..she gives me the same advice as well but for me she does'nt want me to listen to others because it is always negative in a sense that no matter how well i do others are not pleased, still critisised me and my uncle really wants me to quit music so yeah...

you must have talent to succeed in the highest level of piano performance, with also hard work. but without the kind of talent, hard working can only take you so far. it's not just in piano, but in other fields as well, performing art especially. that's why they would have all that auditions to filter out some people with talent from others. but of course, talent doesn't gurantee one's success unless one works hard.

I'm reminded of a quote that my 6th/7th grade orchestra teacher posted in the front of the classroom:


Hard work without talent is a shame.
Talent without hard work is a tragedy.

Thanks for the responses.. But can hard work can overcome the musical talent? For me I knew I could't and felt myself like blocked by the a great wall and felt like Salieri knowing that I won't able to catch up....How about you guys?
Didn't you ever felt that kind of your own limit?

Well, you were apparently already doing it.
You say you lack great talent and had to
practice 10 hrs. a day in order to make
up for it, and you apparently were doing
okay until you heard someone say something
regarding that and then decided to quit based on
what you heard, which was complete bulls***
and something you shouldn't have even
listened to.

The formula is Natural Talent + Acquired Skill + Enough Preparation and Practice!

These are "ingredients" you can't avoid.

When you have done "enough" you will know.

Don't stop before the miracle!

Limits? Blocks?

Whatever your brain thinks will be what happens.
1) No, can do.
2) I'm having trouble with this.
3) I'll never get this.
4) This isn't working.
This is were the cut is made:
5) I'm enjoying meeting this challenge
6) I see, feel, and hear some progress.
7) Let's see what I can accomplish today.
8) I'm doing it!
9) Wow! This is a good workout!
10) Boy, am I happy!

This is of course, assuming that you have the preparation of basic skills needed for the piece you are working on, enjoyment in your music, the right attitude toward work efforts needed, a good brain to work with. No shortage of time.

With encouragement!

Betty

I hate it when people think hard work is not such a wonder as talent is.
Someone willing to work hard is just as talented as someone with talent (or whatever is defined as that).

I agree with everyone who has said that hard work is important. Equally, no amount of hard work can make up for a lack of talent. This simply means that someone with musical talent will always sound better than someone with a lower musical talent, all other things being equal.

But as has also been pointed out, this is a completely false situation. It's not an either/or situation with musical talent - and clearly you have talent if you're majoring in any musical subject. Just 'play to your talents' and do what suits you best - sounds like you are doing this already.

It was a spectacular play first.
Mozart probably worked very hard (to please his violin playing father) too, but it's true that there was quite a bit of talent in him. Salieri, despite all he did, realized he could never be as great as Mozart. The point of Amadeus is to question whether we are okay living in our own skin and not trying to be someone we're not.