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Anyone who doesn't care about virtuosity, hit "back" right now.
Ingolf Wunder. Just saw his vid of Chopin Op. 10/2
Rediculous. How did he get it so fast?
What a monster. Can anyone post a link of a pianist with greater facility? Lol don't even think about saying Tiempo or Kissin or even the great masters like Ogdon or Hamelin-they just weren't inhuman like that. I don't even think uber-advanced aliens from another universe could play like him. Everything he plays is just.....
he belongs on a freak show or something.
k I'm going to go practice.
any thoughts?

Well, with all due respect, mate, that's the tempo it is usually taken at- cf Pollini, Browning, Askenazy and Perahia. I haven't heard Anievas, though one of our primo members -and pianist par excellence- speaks very highly of this long out of print recording.

For the sheer thrill of speed, try this . The sound and picture quality are bloody awful, but you'll get the idea.

It is actually a supreme performance. When not gawking at the right hand passagework, notice that powerful left hand.

lol argerichfan. Argerich is doubtlessly one of the greatest pianists of the century and has an impeccable technique-my teacher studied alongside her with Maria Curcio and the stories he tells me are unbelieveable. But that prelude is not as difficult as the etude.
the tempo it's usually taken at is quarter=144.
That was not 144.
Do you play this etude? lol I do and let me tell you, I am STRUGGLING right now to play it without mistakes at 144-and that's alot slower than this.
Obviously Wunderbread has a long, LONG way to go artistically, not to mention several decades, until he can be on par with Martha.
Of the recordings you mentioned, the only ones which i HAVE are Parahia and Ashkenazy and both collections are among the best. However, Wunder has beefier chops for sure. Tomorrow I'm going to check his metrinome speed

I don't usually care about superfluous virtuosity-but Wunder just packed a very beefy punch.

re: Chopin, Op 10, No 2 :

Wunder takes it at 176
Perahia, at 132
Anievas, at 144
Berezovsky, at 144
Zayas, at 160

Well, speed isn't everything ...

lol someone has already done it for me! thank you Bruce.
176.

Someone should give him a speeding ticket or something...

Generally no, though the Chopin Bb minor Prelude sounds a mite bit flacid when not taken up to speed. This is certainly the case with the Alkan Etudes.

Moritz Rosenthal had a moment of bitchiness: "those that don't think technique important, simply don't possess it!".

Ah, and this is interesting: I didn't realize two well known pianistic figures, Robert Goldsand and Charles Rosen, both studied with Rosenthal. Both of them might seem to be the antithesis of their teacher's temperment...

I've read plenty of Rosen's writings, but Goldsand is only a name to me. I do know, however, that he taught Harris Goldsmith, a well known critic and pianist. Didn't someone on the forum mention the other day a recording Goldsmith made of the Waldstein?

But with due respect -from what I have been told- Mr. Goldsmith had a complete and utter fixation with Toscanini and Schnabel. He evidently couldn't review anything -piano or orchestral- without invoking at some point one of those two names.

I was quite impressed with the Op 10 No 2, not only with the speed but also with the almost gossamer lightness of touch, but I really did not like the Op 25 no 11 which followed. While it was somewhat jaw-dropping in its display of virtuosity, it was just far too fast for my taste, and it much of its nobility in the process.

Regards,

Really? It didn't seem that fast, though I never pulled out a metronome to check.

Ok if you are going to talk about good technique why not mention liberace. I know he didnt really record things like this. But lets face it he had fantastic technique and was like in Ripley's believe it or not as the fastest pianist out there. And lets not forget him playing with all those rings on. Have any of you tried to play with rings? I do not mean that in anyway just a curious question

Try listening to Vadim Rudenko on Op. 10 No. 2

I didn't break out my metronome, but my recording of this etude by Browning sounds almost identical in tempo. Wunder does a great job, though - I was impressed with his performance.

Rudenko apparently is faster than
Wunder at no 2!!! I have no proof but word of mouth....
YEah wunder's winterwind is not great-not enough melody. way too much virtuosic display.
TheMadMan
Liberace could play fast and loud.
there's more to good technique than that. Liberace was an entertainer.

FWIW, Ashkenazy's Melodiya recording is c.172 (I don't have his Decca recording handy)

The Anievas is no longer out of print. EMI have recently reissued their Anievas catalogue at budget price. The Chopin includes the complete Etudes, Waltzes, Ballades and 2nd and 3rd sonatas.

Rosenthal also said that the generation following his was so technically strong that if he were beginning his career again he would have to work a lot harder than he had done.

Technique is not everything, but as Horowitz said, to be more than a virtuoso first you must be a virtuoso.

I've heard Rudenko, I had the link but must have lost it somewhere in the bunch of all links ...

Anyone who has the link for Rudenko's op. 10 no. 2 Chopin Etude please post...

This is Rudenko's performance:

Rudenko Op. 10 #2


Thread about Rudenko Etude

Someone listened closely to the Rudenko recording and claimed a number missed D# notes in the R.H., as well as some audible splices from different takes. I didn't listen that hard, myself (see the thread).

I didn't check metronome speeds, but timing lengths are:

Rudenko, Wunder - 1' 09"
Zayas - 1' 22"
Perahia - 1' 24"

Someone else posted a different Rudenko performance, and the time there was 59 seconds. It sounded like hash, to me, very rushed. Personally, I'm quite happy with Perahia's performance, which is musically very satisfying. I haven't listened to Zayas in a while.



Moritz Rosenthal had a lifetime of bitchiness. On hearing that Schnabel had been rejected for military service, "What did you expect? No fingers!"

I think the Goldsmith Waldstein was issued on Musical Heritage on cassette tape. I know I bought a copy, but I'm not sure I can lay my hands on it.

Rudenko is as fast as Wunder, but has nowhere NEAR the clarity. Not to mention the sparkle... Wunder owns op 10 no 2.

so apparently Rudenko's performance is heavily edited/spliced. Wunder's is live from the Competition....
rumour has it that Wunder started playing piano at 14-before that he was a violinist.

now THAT i have trouble believing...
undoubtedly god of 10/2

At this topic, i just wanted to say that just because other musicians take it slower, it doesnt mean that they aren't able to play it faster. Just because Wunder is taking it at 176, doesnt mean he's the only one who can do that. Other pianists just choose to take it slower for their own musical reasons. Im sure that Tiempo and Kissin can play this etude just as fast if they wanted to. Watch a video of Kissin playing the Beethoven Rondo a Capriccio - i disagree with anyone who doesnt think that thats inhuman.

Kissin's Rage Over a Lost Penny is indeed insane. That piece is one of the most difficult ones in the rep.
However, with an etude such as 10/2, where there is very little going on musically, speed isn't....everything, but it's darn close.

The proof's in the pudding. When Tiempo and Kissin actually do it, I'll believe it.
Taking 10/2 slower for musical reasons doesn't make much sense to me. It's an etude whose only purpose is to show off the technique of the performer.