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The difference between Debussy's and Ravel's music is...
#445909 11/29/08 01:54 PM
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According to someone who's name I unfortunately can't remember... "Ravel's music portrayed the object but Debussy's music portrayed his impression of the object"(paraphrased as best as I can remember it).

What does this statement mean to you? Do you agree or disagree and why?

I'm not really sure what was meant by the statement, but if I look at a few pieces portraying water, e.g. Ravel's Jeau d'eux and Debussy's Reflections on the Water, I see no real aesthetic difference.

Re: The difference between Debussy's and Ravel's music is...
#445910 11/30/08 02:27 AM
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Jeux D'Eau imitates the sound of the water - you can hear it.

Debussy imitates the feeling and atmosphere the water reflections provides - you can feel it.


They're both amazing.

Re: The difference between Debussy's and Ravel's music is...
#445911 12/01/08 10:56 AM
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Well Debussy was supposed to be an impressionist composer, which I suppose answers the question directly. But I also agree with ThomasF


John
Re: The difference between Debussy's and Ravel's music is...
#445912 12/01/08 11:15 AM
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I read somewhere that Ravel's music incorproates elements of onomatopoiea, whereby the music actually mimics the sound such as his Alborado and Jeux d'Eau. Debussy while also emphasizing sound over form, favored a more abstract rendition. He is often compared to the impressionists but in fact he is closer to symbolism, IMHO.. The impressionistic movement was contemporaneous and introduced a new style that also favored theme and impressions of movement with the use of color and less rigid form, a concept similar to what Debussy wanted to achieve with his "uniquely French, anti-Germanic, anti-sonata form" style of music. I think tehre is a great deal of overlap between them stylistically, but Debusy remained faithful to his revolutionary style while Ravel did not neglect form as much.

Re: The difference between Debussy's and Ravel's music is...
#445913 12/01/08 11:15 AM
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I agree with ThomasF, I think Debussy's music (a lot of it) has more of the subjective impression in it. It's also more vertical, I think, than Ravel's music. To my ears Ravel is more linear and descriptive. Ravel's music is extremely economic and precise (kind of like Mozart in that regard).


"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown
Re: The difference between Debussy's and Ravel's music is...
#445914 12/01/08 11:17 AM
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Andromaque,
Quote
...is often compared to the impressionists but in fact he is closer to symbolism, IMHO
Is there much difference between impressionism and symbolism?


"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown
Re: The difference between Debussy's and Ravel's music is...
#445915 12/01/08 11:31 AM
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yes..
sorry, I "sent" by mistake..

In art, Gaugin, Klimt, Munch are good examples of symbolism, vs the impressionists (Monet, Degas, Manet etc)

Re: The difference between Debussy's and Ravel's music is...
#445916 12/01/08 01:00 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by JohnEB:
Well Debussy was supposed to be an impressionist composer, which I suppose answers the question directly. But I also agree with ThomasF
Both are considered impressionist composers.

Re: The difference between Debussy's and Ravel's music is...
#445917 12/01/08 03:28 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by ThomasF:
Jeux D'Eau imitates the sound of the water - you can hear it.

Debussy imitates the feeling and atmosphere the water reflections provides - you can feel it.


They're both amazing.
I agree with this post. Jeux D'eau is a very beautiful "painting" of water, every second of it is filled with that very impressionist-sounding recreation of the various movements of water. Debussy's piece, though similar in some respects, also ventures off into more abstract, atmospheric territory (for example, compare the endings of the two pieces).


http://www.youtube.com/user/Theowne- Piano Videos (Ravel, Debussy, etc) & Original Compositions
音楽は楽しいですね。。。
Re: The difference between Debussy's and Ravel's music is...
#445918 12/02/08 03:13 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Andromaque:
I read somewhere that Ravel's music incorproates elements of onomatopoiea, whereby the music actually mimics the sound such as his Alborado and Jeux d'Eau. Debussy while also emphasizing sound over form, favored a more abstract rendition. He is often compared to the impressionists but in fact he is closer to symbolism, IMHO.. The impressionistic movement was contemporaneous and introduced a new style that also favored theme and impressions of movement with the use of color and less rigid form, a concept similar to what Debussy wanted to achieve with his "uniquely French, anti-Germanic, anti-sonata form" style of music. I think tehre is a great deal of overlap between them stylistically, but Debusy remained faithful to his revolutionary style while Ravel did not neglect form as much.
Debussy's last composition project, which was half-way completed when he died, was a group of sonatas. Not very Germanic ones, to be sure, but they are still titled sonatas, with all the formal weight that implies.

Re: The difference between Debussy's and Ravel's music is...
#445919 12/02/08 11:58 AM
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sure wr.. A man can experiment if he so wishes but you must admit that Debussy overall marched to his own drummer..
Lovely works too. I have listened to the cello and the violin sonata..

Re: The difference between Debussy's and Ravel's music is...
#445920 12/02/08 03:43 PM
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My impressions of these two impressionists:

In some of his compositions, Ravel did draw from Mozart's clean, clear approach, but with the modern, more sophisticated harmonies of the early 20th century - harmonies that Debussy pioneered. I'm not aware of Debussy dabbling in this style as much.

Debussy often used shorter melodic fragments, that he would sometimes repeat twice - the second time, using a different harmony. You hear that in "Reflections on the Water" and in some of the preludes

Ravel favored longer melodic phrases. The ultimate example is the long melody line in Bolero, but there are also extended melodies in pieces like "Gaspard de la Nuit".

Ravel also incorporated Liszt's virtuoso approach in a lot of his piano works. In spite of their difficulty, I find Ravel's pieces fall under my fingers more easily (are more "pianistic"?) than some of Debussy's.

Re: The difference between Debussy's and Ravel's music is...
#445921 12/02/08 04:32 PM
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The difference between Monet and Renoir.


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