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#426871 - 04/16/08 06:17 AM VAR.XVIII  
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btb Offline
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Has anyone got this off pat ?... VAR.XVIII of the Rachmaninoff Rapsodie on a Theme of Paganini Opus 43? (Db Major)

The familiar theme holds ones attention to be able to master the first 12 measures ... but then the sight-reading traffic gets a bit intense with lots of clef changes and overlapping chords.

Any comment?

Here are the first 9 measures.

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#426872 - 04/16/08 03:40 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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What's the question?

It's not a particularly difficult variation; playing through it a few times should get it into the fingers of most proficient pianists.

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190
#426873 - 04/17/08 02:26 AM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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Hi BruceD,
Your nonchallance is disarming ... it will be interesting to hear how many others regard Rach’s Rapsodie VAR.XVIII (post m12)
as "not a particularly difficult variation".

#426874 - 04/17/08 03:05 AM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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It is an incredibly difficult variation. Probably the hardest measures that Rachmaninov ever wrote... and you know the story, even Rachmaninov himself couldn't play them. In fact, that variation is the only reason why I'm too scared to play the whole Rhapsody. I'm having enough trouble lately with Chopin Op. 10 No. 1... a piece of cake in comparison!


Sam
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#426875 - 04/17/08 06:46 AM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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PJ's joking aside, I think Rachmaninov actually did have problems playing this variation even though it is probably the easiest part of the piece. Someone(can't remember who) offered him a Creme de menth before the concert and he played the piece perfectly. Rachmaninov proceded to write "Creme de menth" on the score next to this variation and always had this drink backstage before performing this work.

#426876 - 04/17/08 08:00 AM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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Brendan Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by btb:
Hi BruceD,
Your nonchallance is disarming ... it will be interesting to hear how many others regard Rach’s Rapsodie VAR.XVIII (post m12)
as "not a particularly difficult variation".
It's not a particularly difficult variation.

#426877 - 04/17/08 08:59 AM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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Even I had no trouble at all playing the lower (labeled II) set of staffs in the excerpt posted by btb. wink


Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
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#426878 - 04/17/08 11:22 AM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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Quote
Originally posted by Monica K.:
Even I had no trouble at all playing the lower (labeled II) set of staffs in the excerpt posted by btb. wink
Love to hear your recording, Monica.

Perhaps for Recital 10?


Mel


"Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get — only what you are expecting to give — which is everything. You give because you love and cannot help giving." Katharine Hepburn
#426879 - 04/17/08 11:44 AM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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It's not one of the difficult ones. I always thought Variation 15 was more of a finger twister.

#426880 - 04/17/08 11:46 AM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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It's not a difficult variations at all, just chords that fit under the hands nicely.

#426881 - 04/17/08 12:05 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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#426882 - 04/17/08 12:34 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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Quote
Well said...


What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.
#426883 - 04/17/08 12:36 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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Quote
Originally posted by pianoloverus:
PJ's joking aside, I think Rachmaninov actually did have problems playing this variation even though it is probably the easiest part of the piece. Someone(can't remember who) offered him a Creme de menth before the concert and he played the piece perfectly. Rachmaninov proceded to write "Creme de menth" on the score next to this variation and always had this drink backstage before performing this work.
The creme de menth was supposedly for the jumps at the beginning of the final variation. I took a shot of creme de menth with a friend of mine in the orchestra before I played it this past year, and by God I hit every one of those jumps. I'm never performing this piece again without taking a couple shots first laugh

#426884 - 04/17/08 01:02 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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Quote
Originally posted by pianojerome:
It is an incredibly difficult variation. Probably the hardest measures that Rachmaninov ever wrote... and you know the story, even Rachmaninov himself couldn't play them. In fact, that variation is the only reason why I'm too scared to play the whole Rhapsody. I'm having enough trouble lately with Chopin Op. 10 No. 1... a piece of cake in comparison!
pianojerome, I must disagree. Everyone knows that the hardest passage ever written by Rachmaninov is the third variation of the Paganini Rhapsody! I mean, to be able to play such a frantic solo piano part, so full of wide leaps and treacherous chords and nimble runs -- surely only the most able of virtuosi could tackle it. And as everyone knows, even if one may be able to play the notes, the variation will never have enough aching or enough longing or enough swooning. In other words, the few (if any) who can play the notes of the solo piano part of this variation cannot possibly play them musically. After all, that is one of the immutable laws of the universe, is it not?

Here is the two-piano score of the entire work. Flip to the third variation to see the horror, the horror!

Surely the third variation of the Paganini Rhapsody deserves its own thread! Surely the devil himself resides in the solo piano part of this very variation, wearing a tiger suit, daring the foolish to hunt him down. And surely it is well-nigh impossible to sight-read the solo piano part of this variation! A well known virtuoso who regularly eats the Busoni Concerto and the Alkan Etudes for breakfast is terrified by variation three, and has admitted to not being able to sight-read it. What hope then do we mere mortals have?

Coming soon to btbTV: Our Lord and Saviour enlightens us on the pianistic difficulties of "Heart and Soul."


Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
#426885 - 04/17/08 01:33 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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Orlando Gibbons Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by btb:
Has anyone got this off pat ?... VAR.XVIII of the Rachmaninoff Rapsodie on a Theme of Paganini Opus 43? (Db Major)

The familiar theme holds ones attention to be able to master the first 12 measures ... but then the sight-reading traffic gets a bit intense with lots of clef changes and overlapping chords.

Any comment?

Here are the first 9 measures.

web page
I wanted to post in this thread earlier, but when I looked at the score linked above I had a series of minor strokes for even attempting to read the notes. I lost all motor function when there was a clef change. I'm just happy to be alive. Thanks for nothing, Rachmaninoff.


"See?! The Cliffs of Insanity!"
#426886 - 04/17/08 01:39 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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PianistOne111 Offline
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Utah
...Huh?

(assuming you guys are joking)
.
.
.
.
.
.
(I mean come on...)


One111
#426887 - 04/17/08 03:42 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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Brendan Offline
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Quote
Good point, but let's see where this goes first.

#426888 - 04/17/08 05:37 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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btb Offline
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Thanks for your good sense PJ ... the high-flown flatulance of some have me reaching for Winston Churchill’s politically correct use of the term "terminological inexactitude".

Glad to hear that Rachmaninoff himself needed a stiff medicinal bracer before tackling the minefield of VAR.XVIII.

#426889 - 04/17/08 06:20 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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Quote
Originally posted by btb:
Glad to hear that Rachmaninoff himself needed a stiff medicinal bracer before tackling the minefield of VAR.XVIII.
But if you read a few posts after mine you'll see I had the wrong variation.

#426890 - 04/17/08 08:05 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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Quote
Originally posted by btb:
Thanks for your good sense PJ ...
My pleasure. Now where's that creme de menthe...


Sam
#426891 - 04/17/08 08:20 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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Quote
Originally posted by pianojerome:
Quote
Originally posted by btb:
[b] Thanks for your good sense PJ ...
My pleasure. Now where's that creme de menthe... [/b]
In my belly

#426892 - 04/17/08 08:35 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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pianojerome Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by phonehome:
Quote
Originally posted by pianojerome:
[b]
Quote
Originally posted by btb:
[b] Thanks for your good sense PJ ...
My pleasure. Now where's that creme de menthe... [/b]
In my belly [/b]
oh


Sam
#426893 - 04/17/08 08:42 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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Loki Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Brendan:
Quote
Originally posted by btb:
[b] Hi BruceD,
Your nonchallance is disarming ... it will be interesting to hear how many others regard Rach’s Rapsodie VAR.XVIII (post m12)
as "not a particularly difficult variation".
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation.


Houston, Texas
#426894 - 04/17/08 08:46 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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pianojerome Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Loki:
Quote
Originally posted by Brendan:
[b]
Quote
Originally posted by btb:
[b] Hi BruceD,
Your nonchallance is disarming ... it will be interesting to hear how many others regard Rach’s Rapsodie VAR.XVIII (post m12)
as "not a particularly difficult variation".
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation.


Sam
#426895 - 04/17/08 08:51 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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currawong Offline
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Down Under
Quote
Originally posted by pianojerome:
Quote
Originally posted by Loki:
[b]
Quote
Originally posted by Brendan:
[b] </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by btb:
<strong> Hi BruceD,
Your nonchallance is disarming ... it will be interesting to hear how many others regard Rach’s Rapsodie VAR.XVIII (post m12)
as "not a particularly difficult variation".
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's not a particularly difficult variation.


Du holde Kunst...
#426896 - 04/17/08 09:43 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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Brendan Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by currawong:
Quote
Originally posted by pianojerome:
[b]
Quote
Originally posted by Loki:
[b] </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Brendan:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by btb:
<strong> Hi BruceD,
Your nonchallance is disarming ... it will be interesting to hear how many others regard Rach’s Rapsodie VAR.XVIII (post m12)
as "not a particularly difficult variation".
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's not a particularly difficult variation. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's a particularly difficult variation.

#426897 - 04/17/08 09:57 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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computerpro3 Offline
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BTB I am just curious why when you make threads like this, purporting something to be impossible, you don't choose works by Alkan and the like instead of mainstream, "not particularly difficult" works?

#426898 - 04/17/08 10:43 PM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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pianojerome Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Brendan:
Quote
Originally posted by currawong:
[b]
Quote
Originally posted by pianojerome:
[b] </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Loki:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Brendan:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by btb:
<strong> Hi BruceD,
Your nonchallance is disarming ... it will be interesting to hear how many others regard Rach’s Rapsodie VAR.XVIII (post m12)
as "not a particularly difficult variation".
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's not a particularly difficult variation. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's a particularly difficult variation. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mr. Brendan, on April 17, 2008 at 4:00 AM, you said that "it's not a particularly difficult variation." Now, you are saying that "it's a particularly difficult variation."

Do you know what this makes you, Mr. Brendan?

A flip-flopper.


Welcome to the club. Weekly membership fee is $42 and a creme de menthe, payable to pianojerome.


Sam
#426899 - 04/18/08 02:24 AM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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phonehome Offline
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We don't need no darn flip-flopper as no moderator on these here boards.

BTW I really really REALLY like the girl from the Mercury ads.

.....who's this Rachmaninoff fella?

#426900 - 04/18/08 02:44 AM Re: VAR.XVIII  
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argerichfan Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by currawong:
Quote
Originally posted by pianojerome:
Quote
Originally posted by Loki:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Brendan:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by btb:
Hi BruceD,
Your nonchallance is disarming ... it will be interesting to hear how many others regard Rach’s Rapsodie VAR.XVIII (post m12)
as "not a particularly difficult variation".
It's not a particularly difficult variation.
It's not a particularly difficult variation.
It's not a particularly difficult variation. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's not a particularly difficult variation. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's not a particularly difficult variation.

I tried -honest!- to stay off this thread, but having just read through that variation, where's the O magnum mysterium?

Or is this another example of btb's "high-flown flatulence"? Or perhaps High Church flatulence...


Jason
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