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#421297 - 01/03/08 12:05 PM Analysis question  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 260
troglodyte Offline
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troglodyte  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 260
Uppsala, Sweden
I wonder if someone could explain to me what the harmonic progressions are in this part. I am no stranger to analysis but this beats me. Reason I want to know is that I keep misremembering notes and hope that understanding the structure will help.
[Linked Image]

(From Prokofiev op 103 mov 4)

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#421298 - 01/03/08 01:44 PM Re: Analysis question  
Joined: Nov 2002
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Kreisler Offline
Kreisler  Offline


Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,837
Iowa City, IA
It's not harmonic, it's contrapuntal.

Bass Part:

Chromatic ascending line from D-F, then again from F-Ab.

Treble Part:

Chromatic descending line from F#-C, then down to A, then again from A-Eb, then down to C.

The eighth notes in the RH always start a major or minor 6th above or below the chromatic line.

Sorry the pattern's not so simple. I struggled with the same kind of thing in the first movement of the 8th sonata and second theme of the first movement of the 7th. Once you get them, though, they tend to stick. Just hang in there and you'll have it.


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#421299 - 01/03/08 04:00 PM Re: Analysis question  
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Posts: 260
troglodyte Offline
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troglodyte  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 260
Uppsala, Sweden
Thanks. Yes, it's the eighth notes in the RH that gives me trouble. Ah well, back to slow exercise measure by measure.

#421300 - 01/03/08 08:15 PM Re: Analysis question  
Joined: Nov 2002
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Kreisler Offline
Kreisler  Offline


Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,837
Iowa City, IA
Try this:

Isolate the voices. As you see from the way the stems go, there are two voices in the RH part. Play the passage without the lower voice, then without the upper voice. That will clarify the texture and hopefully the way you hear the piece. Ultimately, it should help the memory, too!


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#421301 - 01/04/08 02:48 PM Re: Analysis question  
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troglodyte Offline
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troglodyte  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 260
Uppsala, Sweden
Sounds reasonable, I shall try it. Thanks again!

#421302 - 01/04/08 05:53 PM Re: Analysis question  
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,618
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
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PoStTeNeBrAsLuX  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,618
Geneva, Switzerland
Hi Trog smile ,

A little while (~6 weeks) ago in the Members Recording Forum, you may remember my writing the following : the parts I find the most challenging are the quick opening and closing of the right hand (chromatic minims alternately with thumb/fifth finger, with stepwise quaver figure with the 'spare' fingers) in the development section, and the left hand quintuplet accompaniment under the reprise of the 1st movement theme is quite difficult to control at the marked dynamic and speed."

Good to see you are getting your teeth into it.. so how's that LH in the coda coming along? wink

-Michael B.


There are two rules to success in life: Rule #1. Don't tell people everything you know.
#421303 - 01/04/08 09:42 PM Re: Analysis question  
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Posts: 260
troglodyte Offline
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troglodyte  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 260
Uppsala, Sweden
Hi Michael! Yes I remember what you said. At first I couldn't believe this part is particularly challenging - it is not very fast - but the problem is in memorizing.

The quintuplets are doing nicely, thanks, - at very low speed. This will take some time. Holiday breaks are soon over and then it is back to a couple of half-hours per week. What fingering do you use for the first pair of quintuplets? I use 41414 for the lower and 21212 for the upper. Of course, taking it slow I can use any fingering but I am worried that when speed increases I won't be able to control the lower if I use 43 there.


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