2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
91 members (benQF, anotherscott, 36251, ambrozy, Animisha, 1903wrightflyer, AlphaTerminus, 19 invisible), 790 guests, and 669 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
#421027 12/20/05 01:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,990
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,990
RA,

I agree with what you've said here in your last post. I would love to memorize a nice program and perform it in public someday. The problem herein lies that I do not have the gazillion hours to practice. I am lucky if I can put in and hour or 1-1/2 hours per day.

I may add that this is due to both my physical condition and workload. Let's face it, as a network administrator, I am on call 24 x 7/365, and it is almost impossible to complete any project without some kind of interruption. The calls from a traveling sales person or the CEO do wonders for practicing. I've noticed too that these calls seem to happen during my best times as though these guys are waiting to wreck the moment.

So I say who cares because I want to be able to enjoy the music and time I have with it rather than working and working on something forever. I am an avid sight reader, and an excellent reader of music in general. I feel why not make use of this skill and enjoy my personal repertiore. I don't play for anyone but myself. I give myself a mini-recital nearly every evening, and if someone else wants to listen in, so well and good.

There are times, I have to admit, that I have played things that are pretty well rehearsed, and pretty close to being memorized. I prop the music up on the piano, and go through the motions of turning pages because I am concentrating more on the music and less on the printed page.

John


Current works in progress:

Beethoven Sonata Op. 10 No. 2 in F, Haydn Sonata Hoboken XVI:41, Bach French Suite No. 5 in G BWV 816

Current instruments: Schimmel-Vogel 177T grand, Roland LX-17 digital, and John Lyon unfretted Saxon clavichord.
#421028 12/20/05 01:50 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,395
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,395
John I feel for you. For me personally learning the piano has been quite a journey so far, there have been 3 times where I couldn't play for 2-3 months at a time due to work or something else, and one particular time at the first half of this year where I was in particular trouble and had to work 2 jobs (one full time, one part time) and I didn't touch the piano once for almost the entire half of the year! It has been very frustrating trying to juggle it with work but I finally feel that I am improving and I would trade in memorization abilities for your voracious sightreading any day. Only recently, when my sightreading has been improving dramatically, have I experienced what a truly amazing thing it is to just sit there and leaf through music and play it mostly accurately. It's one thing to work tediously for months on end on one passage at a time to perfect a piece where you don't even feel like you're playing the piano rather more like a mechanic at work, but it's a totally different experience to just experience music sometimes and play through new things and enjoy the sounds and it is something I have only recently been able to do, sightreading through most of the d minor mozart fantasy for example which I have yearned to play for years but have no time to "learn perfectly" right now and probably won't for quite a while. That's why I am now such a stout advocate of sightreading and earnestly urge everyone to start reading everything in sight and improve their reading abilities, you will truly learn to enjoy music a whole lot more and feel less of the mechanic hacking away at a complex machine and more a musician.


"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."
#421029 12/20/05 07:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,264
btb Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,264
Andromeda
Must be good to be back at the piano after 7 years... perhaps it was the earlier sight-reading effort that kept you away.
rockpeter
Hang in there with your wish to "learn more and more pieces".
Derulux
You have obviously learnt to play Liszt's "Sospiro".
Virginia
What your paino teacher forgot to point out was that "other instruments" only have to sight-read one note at a time and thus don't need to memorize. By contrast the pianist has a much more difficult sight-reading task ... only by dedicated practice and memorisation of the multi-note format can an immaculate performance be assured.
Requiem Aeternam
Scanning use of the score as with Argerich is merely a built-in insurance against a possible lapse in memory. All the hard work will have been done in the 6-8 hour daily preparation sessions. But then, aren't we all at various stages of practice/memorisation ... thereby reducing the slowing initial effect of detailed sight-reading of the score.
The "despair" to which you refer is merely a broad summation of Piano Forum threads ... no need for amateurs to find excuse for an apparent inferiority due to lesser practice hours than the pros ... the extra hours might improve performance but do not represent any superior insight or enjoyment of music.

#421030 12/20/05 10:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,862
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,862
i can't (as far as i know) memorize even the first two inches.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
#421031 12/20/05 03:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 26
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 26
Quote
Originally posted by btb:

And yet, expending the same amount of time and mental energy, one can complete a tertiary education and qualify as a lawyer, engineer or architect.

Why?
sorry if someone has said this already...i didnt read all the responses.
Obviously it is not as clear cut as I am putting it, but quite simply, to place your comparison in proper perspective: as a lawyer, engineer, or architect, there will be times when working on a new case, problem, or project, where you will have to review and brush up on different aspects of your concentration. At any given time, I may only be prepared to put together one program or less even, but I could also say that if requested, i could relearn old programs from 4 or 5 years ago.
Then, of course, there are also the freaks of nature who can perform huge amounts of repertoire at once. I think I saw an ad for someone in New York performing the complete collection of Bach's keyboard works in 16 consecutive days! dont quote me on that. But look at any professional pianists complete resume or program listing...alot of them have gone through a tremendous amount of literature although it all certainly is not maintained in their memory well enough to perform at once.

#421032 12/21/05 12:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,990
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,990
Quote
Originally posted by Requiem Aeternam:
John I feel for you. For me personally learning the piano has been quite a journey so far, there have been 3 times where I couldn't play for 2-3 months at a time due to work or something else, and one particular time at the first half of this year where I was in particular trouble and had to work 2 jobs (one full time, one part time) and I didn't touch the piano once for almost the entire half of the year! It has been very frustrating trying to juggle it with work but I finally feel that I am improving and I would trade in memorization abilities for your voracious sightreading any day. Only recently, when my sightreading has been improving dramatically, have I experienced what a truly amazing thing it is to just sit there and leaf through music and play it mostly accurately. It's one thing to work tediously for months on end on one passage at a time to perfect a piece where you don't even feel like you're playing the piano rather more like a mechanic at work, but it's a totally different experience to just experience music sometimes and play through new things and enjoy the sounds and it is something I have only recently been able to do, sightreading through most of the d minor mozart fantasy for example which I have yearned to play for years but have no time to "learn perfectly" right now and probably won't for quite a while. That's why I am now such a stout advocate of sightreading and earnestly urge everyone to start reading everything in sight and improve their reading abilities, you will truly learn to enjoy music a whole lot more and feel less of the mechanic hacking away at a complex machine and more a musician.
I feel for you too and I'm glad you've gotten over the bumps. I've been there quite a while back. I was a part owner in a family business that ate up nearly 88% of my time. In addition because the salary was so low, I worked second shift as a computer operator so I could pay my bills. Let's say music studies and piano went way to the bottom of the list. If I played at all, it was usually on Friday or Saturday. I tried lessons at that time, but I couldn't put in the time (I wonder why?).

Anyway... Fast forward to now...

To me music is not unlike a short story or play. The composer has written something that has a story to tell, and us the musician, have the work cut out to present it. We are not all stage actors, or concert pianists in this case, so we do our best to read and enjoy the music that we have.

I am sure if I had all the time in the world, I could pull off a decent memorized recital. I have memorized in the past, and it wasn't that difficult. Many thank yous go to the forum members who got me going in this direction again although it has gone backburner again.

It's not that I don't want to do it, it's a matter of getting as much music out of the little time I have with it. So I'm with you all the way on this. I say go forth and build up your sight-reading skills so you can enjoy the music for what it is rather than digging away at something forever only never to do anything with it.

John


Current works in progress:

Beethoven Sonata Op. 10 No. 2 in F, Haydn Sonata Hoboken XVI:41, Bach French Suite No. 5 in G BWV 816

Current instruments: Schimmel-Vogel 177T grand, Roland LX-17 digital, and John Lyon unfretted Saxon clavichord.
#421033 12/21/05 02:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,264
btb Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,264
Thanks for your thoughts Maximus

You keep alive the fools paradise notion that musical memory is infinite with
"I think I saw an ad for someone in New York performing the complete collection of Bach's keyboard works in 16 consecutive days! Don't quote me on that." We can all dream.

The danger of a one-sided passion for music is that you don't establish a lucrative livelihood to support the piano madness. John Citron's pertinent revelation of having to take on a second job because of a low paid family business which consumed 88% of his time tells it all. Knowing that keyboard proficiency requires dedicated practice with little or no financial return, it would seem wise to use the equivalent effort to learn to play Rach 3 over a 5 year period by first qualifying as a lawyer, architect or engineer.

The latter course, besides providing a stable income, has the advantage of better control over daily leisure hours and offering quality time at the piano.

#421034 12/21/05 12:10 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 388
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 388
I didn't have time to read every post carefully but I think Derulux has a good point, if not the main reason.

Of course, it would be best if you could be Borodin or Ives (those are the only cases I know of).


prok
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
Selling Hammond D100 (think B3) Organ & Leslie HL722!
---------------------
Our Fall 2021 Free Newsletter is Out , see it here!
---------------------
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yundi Li arrested
by Sidokar - 10/26/21 05:36 AM
A thought experiment
by cygnusdei - 10/26/21 03:58 AM
Modern U where is the sample folder located?
by MooganDavid - 10/25/21 11:33 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics209,749
Posts3,142,129
Members103,118
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5