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Hmmmm. Not sure how I fit in here, I've been playing for a respectable amount of time, but…. in some respects, I am certainly an adult beginner.

Years playing: 15. Took lessons up to grade 5 (of 7 in Aus - AMEB). I had a pretty stale teacher who did not condone creativity. The way I remember it, I expressed an interest in playing some non-classical music and was told that I would be wasting my time. A fight ensued an my teacher and I reached a mutual decision that it would be best for me to finish taking lessons. In a huff, I threw the piano away (figuratively) and took up the trumpet instead and threw myself head-first into that. After about a year I started tinkling the ivories again and within a month or so, I was playing a good couple of hours every day. Continued like this for a while and the trumpet eventually took the place on the back burner. I have not had a break of more than a day from the piano since (except for one week in 1999) and I feel that I am quite advanced in a lot of areas (sight reading, theory, improvisation). Most of my playing time was spent either improvising or playing straight from classical sheet music (ie: no refinement, just straight through from start to finish, the piece wouldn't be played again until I had played through the other thousand odd bits of sheet I had around). I've been performing improvisation (never repertoire) for about four years and composing for about three, but I started to feel very limited, technically, in the last year or two. Habits that were a little unsteady 10 years ago had become bad habits after a couple of years and had become ingrained bad habits a couple of years after that.

Most of the people for whom I was performing were not musicians, or at least not advanced musicians, themselves and, as such, I didn't feel that I was receiving accurate criticism for my playing. I was afraid at first, but about 8 months ago I bit the bullet, sacrificed my pride and went to be assessed by the head of piano at the local university. I played for him. He praised my sight reading and improvisation. He paused for a minute, as if to find the nicest possible way to describe my technical skills and eventually said: "I would say your playing is quite…quite agricultural".

The gentleman at the university recommended several teachers for me and, about six months ago, I found one who suits me perfectly. She is technically very good (strictly classical repertoire), understands my needs as a player and is not at all condemning of other styles of music. My technical skill has improved a great deal in the last six months, but still has a long, long way to go.

I am currently playing pieces that are not necessarily more advanced than the pieces I was playing previously, but I am spending a lot more time with them, trying to make them sound like performances as opposed to a bunch of notes strung together. This style of practice is fairly alien to me, but I'm getting a lot of enjoyment from improving.

There are hundreds of pieces that I can play through at the right pace with the right phrasing, that I feel 'OK' about, however, I don't feel 'great' about any of these pieces.

Pieces I'm currently working on (to feel great about) are:

- Bach's French Suite no. 2 (this is looking at being the first classical piece I will be proud of playing to an audience);

- Mozart's Fantasy in D minor; and

- A Chopin Waltz. I'm not sure which one as I'm learning this piece more for the exercise than anything else (not that I don't like Chopin, it's just that he doesn't make me melt at the knees)

Good luck to all.
-Felix

p.s. Gussian- I dance (and love it).

Hi Dan,

To answer your original questions:

1) I'm 43. I played only by ear growing up, so I wouldn't count my early years as playing. I played Trombone in high school band. I started taking lessons when my kids advanced beyond what little knowledge I did have. I took lessons for 5 or six years.

2) See 1) above. I also delve into a bit of Irish traditional music on penny or "tin" whistle from time to time.

3) It's been nearly three years now since I took my last lesson. I play for personal enjoyment now strictly at home, and occasionally accompany my kids when they are performing on other instruments or singing.

4) Not much in classical. As you may know, my first love is blues and jazz. I know a few standards I can get through easily including those from the Alfred and Faber & Faber series, and several Christopher Norton compositions, esp. the Latin Preludes I learned taking lessons.

I've tried Beethoven's Moonlight, 1st movement, but still stumble in a few spots. I haven't worked on it seriously in a while. Pachebel's Canon in D is coming off pretty well now. So is Chopin's little preludes. I started on Nocturne Op 9 No. 2 in Eb. Left hand in that is alot more to tackle than I first thought.

5) Going to start on Bach's Siciliano next (#1031 in E for Harpsicord and Flute, for which I've found a piano transcription) - a beautiful piece.

6) Debussey "En Bateau" from Petite Suite comes to mind - I'd love to get back at it some day. Lots of left hand which I could never get up to speed. This was a piece I tried before I was capable of playing it. I'm still not sure if I can, but I intend to try again someday.

Hey Crissy - nice to find another east coaster Canuck here on the forum.

Jamie

Hi Dan,

I'm having fun reading this. It seems there are a lot more of us 'musical fossils' around than I would have thought.

1). I'm 43 and have been taking piano lessons for almost 3 years. I did not play any instrument as a child. Up until child #1, I sang with an amateur chorus so I knew the rudiments of reading music. (Of course, I was never asked to sing more than one note at a time and I had a conductor to keep the beat.)

2). Piano only unless I count the recorder and xylophone from my elementary school music lessons.

3). 3 years. My husband refers to this as my mid-life crisis.

4.) Pieces my teacher has decided were done -
Fur Elise,
Chopin preludes #4 & #28
J.S. Bach prelude #1 from wtc (C maj), 3 preludes and 1 fugue from the short preludes and fugues
C.P.E. Bach La Caroline

5). Working on Schumann Traumerei and 1st movement of Mozart k545 (C maj piano sonata)

6). None but I have so little time to practice that I've never really tried to work on anything outside of my lesson material.

Noelle

Well,

I've posted versions of this in other forums, but here goes...

1.) Played piano for 7-8 years (mostly as a child, I started at 6 yrs old and played through 8th grade). I'm 26 now.

2.) I've always played the piano, except for a brief 2 month honeymoon with a ukelele that I brought back from Hawaii! :p

3.) I've been playing piano again since mid-February and have been taking lessons since April, so I've been playing for about 4 months. My folks sold their house and offered me the piano since no one there played it in the 10 years since I left. (PS No one tuned it either! )

4.) Pieces I can play are Fur Elise, a slight truncation/transcription of the Andante movement from Mozart's Elvira Madigan Concerto, a transcription of Schubert's Ave Maria, Rondo Alla Turca by Mozart (still my current obsession ), and Chopin's Preludes Nos. 4 and 7.

5.) I am working on the Gavotte from JS Bach's 5th French Suite. (nice choice on the 2nd, Rabalthazar !) I've got the first repeating section almost down; still working up the guts to tackle the 2nd section hands together! Also, I'm working on the 1st movement of Mozart's Sonata in A (K331). Finally, I'm working on a piece by a composer named Sergei Bortkievich called "Venice - Song of the Gondolier".

6.) I haven't given up on anything yet, but I may put off some of the tougher variations in the Mozart Sonata movement until later. Since I'm piano shopping right now, I consider that my "extracurricular" activity for the time being!!

I love the thread, it's nice to see how so many people have rediscovered the piano!

Just wondering if you could check and tell me which Chopin Waltz you are playing as an exercise. I worked on some of them myself until I realized I don't like them at all. The only one I enjoy, and still play is the Minute Waltz maybe because of its short duration and fast speed. I find the rest of them EXTREMELY boring and not representative of Chopin's music. They are among his earliest compositions and are very "politically correct" compared to his later works. They are Chopin's moods passed through the filter of aristocratic salon life.
I wouldn't call myself a Chopin expert but I can say I have listened quite thouroughly to his complete repertoire. If I may repeat one thing. The Waltzes are among his most difficult pieces to listen to. You might want to try the Preludes instead, which IMHO are MUCH better music and although technically more difficult, they are more fun to play.

Hi Samejame....just saying Hi back....i'm from New Brunswick....i hope to visit Nfld someday....i hear it's beautiful!...this forum is a great place to meet people from all over...yep, it's nice knowing there are other atlantic canadians here

I've just discovered this web community so my best introduction is to answer the original questions. Our house came with a piano and I figured someone better learn how to play it since no one else in the household was interested. So, called up for lessons, and armed with Alfred Adult Book #1, went down the path to my mid-life musical education. It's been a lot of fun.

1) Total years of playing any instrument (including any playing time in your "younger days")

Less than one year (9 months)

2) What instruments you have played

Piano, and occasional attempts at the plastic recorder

3) Recent years of playing piano

9 months!

4) Pieces you can play ("play" meaning you can get from start to finish without major pauses, with or without music, be somewhere close to the proper pace and phrasing, and generally feel “ok” about how you play the piece)

Basic christmas carols, beginner "The entertainer" beginner "Fur Elise" and pieces from the RCM level 3 book, Minuet in G major, Clementi Sonatina I and II

5) Pieces you're working on.
Clementi Sonatina partIII, Musette in D major

6) Pieces you’ve spent some serious time working on, but eventually stopped working on for whatever reason.

The Hockey Night in Canada theme music. The beginner version sounds wrong, it's badly arranged and I don't have the ability to get the senior version yet . Maybe next season

I'll add one:

7. Instruments you'd like to play:

The guitar. Acoustic not electric

Great topic Dan.
1) Took about three years of uninspired lessons as a youngster. Never any good - finally allowed to quit at age 13.
2) No other instruments, other than air guitar in teens and 20's.
3)Recent years of playing: 3 and 1/2 years, starting at age 33. Been taking lessons for 2 and a half. Bought a nice digital piano a few mos. before lessons began - still using it.

4) Pieces I can play well on a good day are:
Chopin : nocturnes op.9-1, op.15-3, op. 37-1, op. 55-1; waltzes op. 34-1, op. 69-1, 69-2; mazurkas op.6-1, op.6-2, op. 7-2; two preludes, #4 and #7;
Brahms: : waltz op.39, no.15; Mozart: : K545, 1st mvt., Grieg: : nocturne op. 54, Scarlatti: : K380(L23), Beethoven: : Fur Elise; Jim Brickman (2 or 3 pcs)

5) Pieces working on: Mozart K545, 2nd mvt.; Chopin nocturne op.32-1 (almost finished - what a piece), Scarlatti sonata K.9, Brahms op.118, no.2, Beethoven bagatelles op.33 (one or two), Beethoven sonata in G-min (op.49-1)(love this piece now, but have a ways to go!). There's a wonderful transcription of Beethoven's 6th symphony by Lawrence Rosen that I've stumbled upon. I'm messing with that too.

6) About 2 yrs ago,I worked on Chopin's Polonaise op. 40, no.1 but gave up, along with nocturne op.27, no.2. Maybe I should try those again, but now I have a love affair with Beethoven's stuff!!

In short, I can't believe how much I love classical music now. Can't seem to get enough of it. I wish I would have "encountered" it before the age of 33 (not that that's old or anything!!).

Rick

Hi, Folks,

I keep forgetting to ask this question of all of you. How big a part does theory play in your lessons/practicing? During the 2 years I took lessons as a child, I never had any theory. Just practice, practice, practice. Maybe some scales sometime, but not much.

Now, on the second time around, I find that scales have helped me tremendously -- with agility at least. Of course, I'm not to the "black" ones or the "minor" ones, yet, so I've only covered a small portion. I always do about 30 min. of scales to warm up.

I think a little bit of theory would be beneficial, but at this stage in my life and for my purposes, I don't want to spend lots and lots of time of it.

What are your opinions about theory?

Thanks!! This is a great topic. There's another one going on here, too.

BLee

Hey, this is really cool stuff! I’m very happy to find out there’s a gaggle of adult beginners who frequent this place. I’m getting some good ideas about what I may take up next from what everyone else is currently playing or working on.

Vince is giving me fits right now. I’ve hit a wall in Linus & Lucy, and have been stuck on the same page for over 2 weeks now (about 12 measures of music). In this morning’s lesson, my teacher pulled out the metronome and we spent most of the hour at a very slow tempo working on counting out my areas of trouble first without playing, and then with playing. I can’t wait to get home this evening and try it out on my own. Sure would like to break down this L&L wall!

Cast Your Fate to the Wind has also stumped me, this time due to the syncopation in certain measures. We also went thru that in some detail this morning, and she has (with apologies to Mr. Guaraldi), made a few modifications to the music to make my life easier. I’m not sure how I feel about that yet, as I’ve always been kinda hung up on playing the pieces I’m learning in their original form. What she suggested is that I keep up the bass line without change thru the first 10 or so measures, instead of trying to change that rhythm slightly in two different places. She also “re-timed” (if that’s the correct way to put it), one right hand measure which had a “pentuplet” phrase so that it all fell onto 16th note timings. When she plays the changes, it is (to me) indistinguishable from the original. But, I’m still not sure I’m comfortable with it. What do you think about it? Would you go with the re-arranged music, or fight on against the original?

Regards,
Dan

1) Elementary: 3 1/2 years piano. Beginning 6th grade, 4 years violin- school orchestra only- no private instruction.
2) Piano, violin, a little guitar for a couple of summers as a camp counselor
3) Returned to piano lessons 4 years ago fulfilling a desire I'd had for many, many years.
4) A bunch, actually, though some I haven't played as much recently would require more review than I have time to give them. Classical repetoire, from best to worst: Chopin Nocturne, c# minor, op. posthumous, Bach Preludes; F and e, Haydn Sonata D major, first movement, Bach Invention in B flat major, Mendelsohn Song without Words, Venetian Boat song, several other smaller pieces by Brahms, Shumann, others. Several contemporary pieces from NMTA Festival lists, Bali H'ai, Hymns and hymn arrangements for preludes or offeratories during church service.
5) Hymns and more hymns, hymn arrangements, 2nd movement of Haydn Sonata in D, 2 Organ parts for duets for this Sunday morning.
6) Not even going there.. there are several, mostly because I struggle with insufficient velocity.

Beginning again with piano has truly been one of the best decisions I've ever made. Developing disciplined practice, including "practicing" performing to be able to play despite some serious performance anxiety has not always been easy. I make myself play for others whenever I have the opportunity because I want to share my joy in and love of music. My ultimate goal is to be able to play regularly at church.

Just wondering if you could check and tell me which Chopin Waltz you are playing as an exercise.......

......You might want to try the Preludes instead, which IMHO are MUCH better music and although technically more difficult, they are more fun to play.[/QB][/QUOTE]

The waltz I'm playing is Opus 69, No. 2. I'm not terribly interested in it, musically, but it is a style that I've not had a lot of experience with and, as such, I'm playing it to enhance my technique in this style.

I'm familiar with some Chopin preludes and I agree that they are quite beautiful. When I say that I'm not a fan of Chopin, I only mean that he is not one of my favourite composers. No disrespect intended towards the man.

BLee writes -
I usually play 15 - 30 minutes of Hanon with every practice - exercises, a couple of scales and arpeggios (sp?). I know that Hanon is controversial but I find the work has helped a lot with my speed, accuracy and flexibility. I also find it easier to focus on evenness and tone when playing something mechanical. As a beginner, I get overwhelmed when I'm trying to coordinate right hand, left hand, pedaling and musical awareness. (Now where was the melody again?) Hanon removes a couple of the variables so I can concentrate on technique.

My teacher talks to me occasionally about theory. Usually in reference to the piece I'm working on at the time. Sometimes I get it and sometimes I don't. I have found that analyzing the structure on my own is the most helpful. I find it much easier to play the entire piece (instead of note to note) once I understand the progression. Unfortunately, that understanding can takes months to finally sink in. The transition from playing notes to playing music is most frustrating part of learning a piece for me.

I have been playing the piano for 48 years and have been teaching for 30 years. I have played it seems just about everything and train young pianists but also work with some adults. I also play the cello and used to play the flute. My granmother was a concert pianist and I was raised on piano 24/7.

I just discovered this forum and was intrigued with the adult learners topic. It's fun to discover other like-minded ones who have the courage to undertake new ventures, even late in life.

1 & 2. This one is not clear cut. My father was a musician and music teacher whose dream was to have a family band, each learning a different instrument. I grew up with music in the house and began accordian lessons at age 4 (yes, a bit too young). My dream instrument was the piano but since that was my brother's instrument that was that. Eventually my siblings quit music and I stuck with it until around age 10.

In junior high school I took up the clarinet and joined the band (accordions were NOT the in instrument). I must have done pretty well because the band director wanted to place me in the first seat in the senior band. A self confident child might have been inspired but I did what any other introverted kid might do, I was petrified at the thought and quit!

In my mid 20s, as a mother of two youngsters, I began taking piano lessons - at last my dream! The teacher was extremely talented at playing but in retrospect perhaps not the best at teaching. I had about 5 years on and off but in all honesty did not devote the time it would take to become accomplished. Too many other things to do as a busy working mother. When my youngest daughter, who had passed me up in skill, began threatening to quit I believed she was feeling competition so I decided to remove that and I quit. II didn't care for our teacher anyways). Of course you can all guess what happened, she eventually stopped taking lessons anyways. I didn't return - the original teacher had retired and I didn't care for the methods of the only other teacher in the small town. However I never gave up the desire to play the piano, buying several keyboards through the years and retiring them to the closet in short order because of my frustration trying to make music with them.

In my late 40's and starting from scratch, I learned to play a djembe drum (African hand-to- hand drum) in a group, which over time evolved into an ensemble that did public performances. It was great fun and along the way I learned something important. Despite not having a natural sense of percussive rhythm, in 5 years I got pretty good, just from dedicated practice. Hand drumming African rhythms takes a lot of energy and I was feeling it. In my 50's I was the oldest one in the group. When we had a 2-3 hour long performance the kids in their 20's and 30's went home, showered and went out for the evening. I went home, showered and crashed! So... when our ensemble director moved away, well....it was time to retire from drumming.

3. I missed music in my life. At age 58 I bought yet another keyboard and started teaching myself. I had no interest in being a performer, I just wanted to play for enjoyment. A friend who began lessons from scratch 7 years ago in her 40's (and now plays wonderfully) was an inspiration. She gave me a few hints about practicing methodology that I'd never been taught although they are quite obvious now that I know them - little tricks of the trade so to speak. Example: start with the most difficult measures or phrases FIRST. Practice only those until mastered, then practice the next most difficult measures. When all of the difficult parts are mastered, you fill in the easier parts and start playing from the beginning of the piece. The whole piece comes together, it flows and polishes up relatively easily. (My previous experience was to sail through a piece from beginning to end, feeling really great until I bogged down in the difficult "wet cement" part and ended feeling discouraged.)

Six months ago I began lessons with a great teacher and what a difference. I have had many many sloppy habits to unlearn. I've applied the discipline learned in drumming, with the concentration gained through the practice of meditation, plus new techniques in practice methodology and I know that I am making great progress. Just this past week my teacher shared that when I began 6 months ago, I had some talent but it was pretty raw. She says I now play like a "pianist." From her this compliment carries a lot of weight. Although she is very supportive and always acknowledges areas of progress she does not give insincere compliments. She is very particular about technique and I certainly continue to need that instruction but was encouraged by this very unexpected compliment!

4. I've completed simplified versions of the Bachs Brandenburg Concerto No. 5, Handel's Hallelulah chorus, and Beeethovens Symphony No. 5 in C Minor, first movement. I'm currently working on Chopin's Waltz in F Minor. It is the full version but is not a difficult piece. It takes about 2 months to finish each piece. I add variety to my palate by playing around with some new age pieces or pop favorites that I fall in love with. I usually bring them to every 3rd or 4th lesson for her input. Since they are not part of my lesson I can drop them at will if I get bored with them. I choose my music far differently than I used to. I now pick new pieces that are at my skill level instead of way over my head so I can accomplish them relatively easily (less than a month) and feel a sense of accomplishment and have something else for show and tell.

5. Pieces tried and gave up on. Yep. Lots of them. I like to taste them and move on because my skill level is just not there yet and I know it. But it is fun to sample them just the same. There are several new age composers that I like, such as Yanni, Jim Chapelle, Michael Jones, Suzanne Cianni. I can play through some of them and parts of others, but none of them flow flawlessly. From them I'll pick a challenging phrase or page and work on it just for fun until I feel some sense of accomplishment yet feel that it's OK to drop them. After all, most of my practice time and energy is devoted to the lesson piece. There are many classical pieces that are still farther down the road. I like Debussy's Golliwog's Cakewalk, and others from the Childrens Corner Suite.

For those who want to forge on alone for your own enjoyment,and teach yourself I say why not! Go for it and enjoy, enjoy, enjoy. There is such enjoyment in playing music at all skill levels.

For those who are considering taking lessons, I say find a good teacher and you will leave your former skills in the dust without regret. You will realize a new life to your playing that you just can't acquire on your own. I not only want to play but to play well, even if I am only playing for myself. I want the music to fully express whatever it is intended to express, whatever it is that I'm trying to express through it. And it just wasn't quite happening left to my own devices. After all, if I was aware of those poor techniques I would have corrected them. It seems to be a combination of many subtle, little things that makes a difference whether the music flows or is choppy. So for those who want to realize more out of their music life, I'm all for having a good teacher.

Hi Toni,

Welcome to the forum. I think you'll find this to be a great place to "meet" like-minded people and engage in some interesting discussions. (Like minded as far as a love of piano that is. Other topics (and sometimes even piano topics) can get pretty interesting and heated at times!).

I was inspired by your post. When I stop to think about it, I know that I'm playing piano for the sheer enjoyment I derive from it. Sometimes tho' I can lose sight of that and get bogged down and frustrated. It was nice to read your history as it served as a fresh reminder.

Again, welcome! Please keep reading and posting.

Regards,
Dan

Great post, Toni! I am definitely the “forge ahead alone” type, although I would like to find a teacher.

This is a great forum. I didn’t know that there were so many like me out there. I ‘d love to share technical problems and questions with everyone.

Lets start---I have small hands and have difficulty playing the next to last right hand chord in LvB’s Op. 2 No.1 2’nd movement. Its a 5 note chord (don’t know the name, sorry) with separation of all fingers. I can play it, but not cleanly. I’ve been working on it, and fortunately, there is a half measure rest before it. Its hard for me to curl my fingers just so to hit the notes cleanly. Any thoughts?

Can't help you with that one, Evan. And the ones who can may not be following a "for beginners only" thread. Why don't you take that last paragraph and start a new thread?

:rolleyes: Little hands. Yes, I know what you mean. Wouldn't it be great to have longer fingers? My teacher, also a woman with short fingers, says there are some workarounds but there will be chords that we just cannot reach, moreso with certain long-fingered composers than with others. You can stretch your reach by playing/hanging off the front edge of the keys for that particular chord, but I don't know if it is possible with a 5 note chord or if the first and last notes are black keys.

Evan:

Just looked the chord up.

Let's think.

No good leaving out the B flat - essential 7th sound needed.

Better not leave out the top G - melodic reasons.

Could leave out the top E but there's probably no point as the bother's no doubt caused by the closeness of the second and third finger on the B flat and C.

Therefore:

1. Try leaving out the C (third finger) There are already two Cs down below so it shouldn't make much difference.

2. If that's no good, play the C but leave out the G (put thumb on B flat instead) - there are still two other Gs in the chord.

Any good ?