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Liszt never paraphrased Carmen? #414596
11/25/08 07:50 PM
11/25/08 07:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
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Reaper978 Offline OP
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I love Liszt's operatic paraphrases and I was surprised to see that he never wrote a fantasy on Bizet's Carmen. Carmen was first performed in 1875, and Liszt was still alive and writing at that time. Did he simply neglect to write a fantasy on it? I would have liked to see how he would work the fantastic themes...

EDIT: I really enjoyed Busoni's fantasy on it, but I wish he included the "Votre Toast" theme.

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Re: Liszt never paraphrased Carmen? #414597
11/26/08 08:51 AM
11/26/08 08:51 AM
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Posts: 607
UK
Wood-demon Offline
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Although Carmen is one of the world's most popular and enduring operas it took quite a few years to establish its popularity, so Liszt might not have been aware of it. Even if he had made its acquaintance, the style of music he was writing in his last years wasn't suited to the operatic paraphrases of his heyday.
An American pupil of Liszt, Julia Rive-King, wrote a paraphrase of the opera; The paraphrases on Strauss Waltzes by this composer that I know make me keen to examine this work. I wonder if any body could direct me to a copy.

There is a Carmen Phantasy by Josef Weiss available from IMSLP.

Re: Liszt never paraphrased Carmen? #414598
11/26/08 11:37 AM
11/26/08 11:37 AM
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8ude Offline
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8ude  Offline
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I'm pleased he didn't. Not that he wouldn't have done a fantastic job with it, but I am so sick of Carmen paraphrases/fantasies/variations/etc... There are a lot of them out there and while there's no denying that the thematic material is great, enough's enough...


What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.
Re: Liszt never paraphrased Carmen? #414599
11/26/08 11:42 AM
11/26/08 11:42 AM
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New York
Andromaque Offline
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Speaking of which (or nearly), has anyone heard the Liszt transcription of Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique?

Re: Liszt never paraphrased Carmen? #414600
11/26/08 11:47 AM
11/26/08 11:47 AM
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Pacific Northwest, US.
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argerichfan Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Andromaque:
Speaking of which (or nearly), has anyone heard the Liszt transcription of Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique?
Yes! And for the price of a Naxos CD you can get a great recording by Idil Biret.


Jason
Re: Liszt never paraphrased Carmen? #414601
11/26/08 11:50 AM
11/26/08 11:50 AM
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New York
Andromaque Offline
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is it good? I read about it in the Walker biography. It said that Schumann had Liszt's score he was writing a review of the Berlioz' work, and he was compeltely delighted with the Liszt..

Re: Liszt never paraphrased Carmen? #414602
11/26/08 11:55 AM
11/26/08 11:55 AM
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Pacific Northwest, US.
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argerichfan Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by 8ude:
... but I am so sick of Carmen paraphrases/fantasies/variations/etc... There are a lot of them out there and while there's no denying that the thematic material is great, enough's enough...
Let me guess... your local classical FM station has played the Sarasate (with Perlman of course) once too often! Tell them to substitute the Waxman next time.

But I understand... I'm thoroughly tired of the Sarasate.


Jason
Re: Liszt never paraphrased Carmen? #414603
11/26/08 11:58 AM
11/26/08 11:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,376
Pacific Northwest, US.
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argerichfan Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Andromaque:
...is it good? .
I think so, and of course who is to argue with Schumann. Charles Rosen also speaks highly of it.

I like Biret's recording, though you may recall a thread several weeks ago wherein some rather nasty remarks were made about Biret, although in a different context.


Jason
Re: Liszt never paraphrased Carmen? #414604
11/26/08 01:09 PM
11/26/08 01:09 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,886
San Francisco
whippen boy Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by argerichfan:
Quote
Originally posted by 8ude:
... but I am so sick of Carmen paraphrases/fantasies/variations/etc... There are a lot of them out there and while there's no denying that the thematic material is great, enough's enough...
Let me guess... your local classical FM station has played the Sarasate (with Perlman of course) once too often! Tell them to substitute the Waxman next time.
Or better yet, the Lemare version. wink But of course, that will never happen. frown


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Re: Liszt never paraphrased Carmen? #414605
11/26/08 02:59 PM
11/26/08 02:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 959
Basel, Switzerland
pianovirus Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Reaper978:
EDIT: I really enjoyed Busoni's fantasy on it, but I wish he included the "Votre Toast" theme.
I absolutely love Busoni's fantasy/sonatina. If Liszt would have paraphrased it, at least the ending would be completely different (I bet!), but I like the serious ending of Busoni very much.

Re: Liszt never paraphrased Carmen? #414606
11/26/08 03:53 PM
11/26/08 03:53 PM
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Reaper978 Offline OP
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Reaper978  Offline OP
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Quote

There is a Carmen Phantasy by Josef Weiss available from IMSLP.
Just taking a look at this. It looks very much like a virtuoso concert work in the vein of Liszt's paraphrases, and at 27 pages in length would be a pretty substantial one. My abilities at music reading aren't up to the task of this, and it seems completely obscure so there aren't any recordings to see how it sounds.

Re: Liszt never paraphrased Carmen? #414607
11/26/08 09:26 PM
11/26/08 09:26 PM
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wr Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Reaper978:
I love Liszt's operatic paraphrases and I was surprised to see that he never wrote a fantasy on Bizet's Carmen. Carmen was first performed in 1875, and Liszt was still alive and writing at that time. Did he simply neglect to write a fantasy on it? I would have liked to see how he would work the fantastic themes...

EDIT: I really enjoyed Busoni's fantasy on it, but I wish he included the "Votre Toast" theme.
I'm not sure of the date of the last of the Liszt operatic paraphrases, but by 1875 he just wasn't doing many of them anymore.

Re: Liszt never paraphrased Carmen? #414608
11/27/08 03:40 AM
11/27/08 03:40 AM
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Posts: 556
Orlando
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Journee Oubliee Offline
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Orlando
Moszkowski also made a transcription on Carmen, and I believe Horowitz used this piece as a source for his own version.


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