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#413301 - 04/18/03 01:43 PM Technique  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello everybody.

I was wondering a couple of things regarding technique. I have a very good teacher who's in love with etudes and that's all I'm doing now. I love it. Etudes and scales. I want to get my technique fantastic, even if it may take me the rest of my high school years. (Currently in 10th grade.) I haven't learned all the scales yet because before I couldn't be bothered and before I could play E major I played the Tschaikovsky first concerto!!! I know it sounds crazy, but it's true. I played the Chopin scherzi for my new teacher, and then she asks: "now play me an e major scale" and I don't know how.

So my new teacher says "we need some changes. Big time. No more Rachmaninoff for you, now." And so she has me do scaled, chords, etc. which I hadn't done before. My technique was ok before but now I realize that a good technique is the key to everything. Once your technique is good you don't have to struggle. And you don't have to "fight" the piece. So I do about an hour of scales every day and the rest I spend on learning etudes. I want to learn some Chopin, Prokofiev, Liszt, Moszkovsky, Scriabin, Rachmaninoff and Clementi (perhaps a Godowski) etudes. I want to have a huge repertoire of studies when I graduate and be like my friend: he says he plays through all Chopin etudes every day as a warm-up. After a year his technique was brilliant.

So I have decided to do a lot of etudes, not really work on "pieces." The Question: By the end of my senior year, do you think that if I do continue this "etude-mania" and practice basically only etudes by various composers, do you think that it's a good idea? DO you think it'll boost my technique a lot, and after that it will be much easier for me to learn "big" pieces e.g. ones I struggled with before? Are etudes a worthwhile investment?

Thanks, sorry it got a bit long.

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#413302 - 04/18/03 02:19 PM Re: Technique  
Joined: Dec 2001
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Praetorian_AD Offline
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Joined: Dec 2001
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England
Do Bach and Mozart. With them, you can never go wrong.

#413303 - 04/18/03 04:01 PM Re: Technique  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 114
Gflat Offline
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Gflat  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 114
Wiltshire . UK
Quote
Originally posted by BeePhlatMinor:
Hello everybody.

I was wondering a couple of things regarding technique. I have a very good teacher who's in love with etudes and that's all I'm doing now. I love it. Etudes and scales. I want to get my technique fantastic, even if it may take me the rest of my high school years. (Currently in 10th grade.) I haven't learned all the scales yet because before I couldn't be bothered and before I could play E major I played the Tschaikovsky first concerto!!! I know it sounds crazy, but it's true. I played the Chopin scherzi for my new teacher, and then she asks: "now play me an e major scale" and I don't know how.

So my new teacher says "we need some changes. Big time. No more Rachmaninoff for you, now." And so she has me do scaled, chords, etc. which I hadn't done before. My technique was ok before but now I realize that a good technique is the key to everything. Once your technique is good you don't have to struggle. And you don't have to "fight" the piece. So I do about an hour of scales every day and the rest I spend on learning etudes. I want to learn some Chopin, Prokofiev, Liszt, Moszkovsky, Scriabin, Rachmaninoff and Clementi (perhaps a Godowski) etudes. I want to have a huge repertoire of studies when I graduate and be like my friend: he says he plays through all Chopin etudes every day as a warm-up. After a year his technique was brilliant.

So I have decided to do a lot of etudes, not really work on "pieces." The Question: By the end of my senior year, do you think that if I do continue this "etude-mania" and practice basically only etudes by various composers, do you think that it's a good idea? DO you think it'll boost my technique a lot, and after that it will be much easier for me to learn "big" pieces e.g. ones I struggled with before? Are etudes a worthwhile investment?

Thanks, sorry it got a bit long.
_______

For myself I gave up playing etudes long ago.

They did nothing for me , absolutely nothing - just another bundle of notes going by in a blur.

Just before that I had given up playing all the concertos and then sonatas....

OVERATED in my opinion

I moved on to scales at the end but again I realised they were just making me even worse.

In the end I stopped playing altogether .

My teacher now says I am playing better than ever before but to be honest I think she's just being nice to me

:rolleyes:

Gflatasapancakeandloonyasabin !


" You want to play the what !?!"
#413304 - 04/18/03 05:23 PM Re: Technique  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 80
jimmyD Offline
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jimmyD  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 80
Fredericksburg, VA
If I were you, I'd mix it up. Etudes can be great, but I'd think playing ONLY etudes would get old. Many etudes are very musical, but throw in some sonatas, etc. And it never hurts to play Bach's WTC. Fugues are a challenge!

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#413305 - 04/18/03 05:25 PM Re: Technique  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,565
Brendan Online content
Brendan  Online Content


Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,565
McAllen, TX
Quote
Originally posted by BeePhlatMinor:
I played the Chopin scherzi for my new teacher, and then she asks: "now play me an e major scale" and I don't know how.
Even though the last scherzo is in E major and has several rapid E major scales in them? Come to think of it, the 2nd and 3rd Scherzi both have rapid E major figurations as well.

#413306 - 04/18/03 06:16 PM Re: Technique  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,111
CrashTest Offline
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CrashTest  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
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What I am doing now, since I have an upcoming recital, is work mainly on my main repertoire. (Beethoven Op.22, Chopin Scherzo in B minor, Debussy Voiles, Bach p/f in d bk I, and a few more Debussy preludes as needed) In addition, I am working on 3 or so Chopin etudes, but I am not concerned with working them up to tempo, or anything of the sort. Their purpose is to help me develop more technique in conjuction with my recital pieces. This way, I don't have to put too much time into each etude, just enought to get the desired result.

Of course, if I were studying these etudes for a perfomance, it would be a different matter. They are musical masterpieces just as they are great etudes, so they deserve attention to the utmost musical and technical detail.

#413307 - 04/19/03 06:43 AM Re: Technique  
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3
Gregory Urich Offline
Junior Member
Gregory Urich  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3
Lund, Sweden
Hi Bee,

Sounds like you have ackomplished alot for your years. Bee, be careful! I had a Russian teacher in college who said she would straighten out my techniqe. She showed me the "proper" movements and within two weeks I was in pain and never recovered until recently.

Exercises for building strength and endurance are unnecessary. Coordinated movement is the key and any repetoire is appropriate.

In the past three years I have been studying piano technique and functional anatomy quite intensely and it seems there is really only one complete and reliable technique--"The Taubman techniques". It's important to have a good teacher though.

I have a site with quite a number of technique links as well as some book reviews. Check it out... Piano Hands I had been injured for 18 years (since music school). I began studying the "Taubman techniques" with Edna Golandsky Edna Golandsky about two and a half years ago. I now am pain free and have a facility and control I never dreamed of.

Best of luck,
Gregory

#413308 - 04/19/03 09:40 AM Re: Technique  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 151
Jason_dup2 Offline
Full Member
Jason_dup2  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 151
Maryland
Quote
I want to have a huge repertoire of studies when I graduate
What you are going to end up with is a lop-sided repertoire. You play nothing but romantic era pieces, and you say you value technique. Try the two and three part inventions of Bach for some technique builder and expand your mind and playing ability. Surely you can find a couple pieces of Bach or Mazart and Beethoven you like.

I read a passage in a book that said "practice what you want to play" he did not say this to completely take away from scales as a basic foundation. I take this to mean play some scales for basic technique but practice the music you want to play since the ultimate goal is to play music that we want to play.

You are much further along in your playing than I but, you really need to expand into more than one era of music. It will help you become a more well rounded pianist.

#413309 - 04/19/03 09:51 AM Re: Technique  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,837
Kreisler Offline
Kreisler  Offline


Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,837
Iowa City, IA
His repertoire will only be lop-sided if he does only etudes for years.

How long term is your teacher's plan? If it's scales and etudes for only a few months, then it might be very helpful. If it's for a few years, then your repertoire will suffer...


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#413310 - 04/20/03 08:31 AM Re: Technique  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,995
ryan Offline
1000 Post Club Member
ryan  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,995
Colorado
Quote
Originally posted by Brendan:
Quote
Originally posted by BeePhlatMinor:
[b]I played the Chopin scherzi for my new teacher, and then she asks: "now play me an e major scale" and I don't know how.
Even though the last scherzo is in E major and has several rapid E major scales in them? Come to think of it, the 2nd and 3rd Scherzi both have rapid E major figurations as well.[/b]
Brendan,

I am with you. The original post was total BS. Tchaikovsky's First Concerto has scales in it as well.

Ryan

#413311 - 04/20/03 10:03 AM Re: Technique  
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 87
da 6th finger Offline
Full Member
da 6th finger  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 87
New Zealand
Completely overshadowed by what Brendan pointed out, "All Chopin etudes every day as a warm-up" fails to live up to its BS potential.


the nocturne in c sharp minor is the most beautiful thing on this earth
#413312 - 04/20/03 10:26 AM Re: Technique  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,316
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BruceD  Offline

Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,316
Victoria, BC
No matter what his reincarnation is on this Forum, he always ends up at the same point: stretching our credibility and testing our gullibility to the point that we really can't believe much of what he says - if we can believe any of it.

The amusement factor soon changes to tedium!

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190
#413313 - 04/21/03 02:17 AM Re: Technique  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 175
Zephyr Offline
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Zephyr  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 175
Los Angeles, California
How can you not know the scales if you've played all these songs that you claim that you can play? Did your teacher say, "Lets forget all the basics of piano and start playing your first piano concerto!" ????


To be a real philosopher all that
is necessary is to hate some one
else's type of thinking- William James
#413314 - 04/21/03 04:53 PM Re: Technique  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi everybody and thank you for your replies!

Maybe I didn't make myself clear: I only can play the first two scherzi. Zephyr, that's basically what happened. My teacher let me do whatever I want without doing the basics first, which is why I have to re-learn everything and do etudes and scales now. That's why she said: "bye bye Chopin, Rachmaninoff, and Tchaikovsky!!!!"

So yes, I'm almost starting over again. But it'll be nice to have the fundamentals down. And yes they do have scale passages in them, but I didn't think of them as that nor could I identify what scales they were: I just "hacked" through the pieces loosely playing them. I didn't play them with an orchestra or anything though!!! Only with my former piano teacher, and didn't play them as well as I will be in a couple of months when I get the basics down!

Gregory, those links were really helpful! Thanks a lot!!!!!

BeePhlat

#413315 - 04/21/03 07:42 PM Re: Technique  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 114
Gflat Offline
Full Member
Gflat  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 114
Wiltshire . UK
Quote
Originally posted by BeePhlatMinor:
Hi everybody and thank you for your replies!

Maybe I didn't make myself clear: I only can play the first two scherzi. Zephyr, that's basically what happened. My teacher let me do whatever I want without doing the basics first, which is why I have to re-learn everything and do etudes and scales now. That's why she said: "bye bye Chopin, Rachmaninoff, and Tchaikovsky!!!!"

So yes, I'm almost starting over again. But it'll be nice to have the fundamentals down. And yes they do have scale passages in them, but I didn't think of them as that nor could I identify what scales they were: I just "hacked" through the pieces loosely playing them. I didn't play them with an orchestra or anything though!!! Only with my former piano teacher, and didn't play them as well as I will be in a couple of months when I get the basics down!

Gregory, those links were really helpful! Thanks a lot!!!!!

BeePhlat
Utter classic , you're cracking me up mate, cracking me right up .

If I ever need some quick hilarity 'fix' in my life I can be guaranteed to find it in this particular forum.

Whatever you do don't stop ..... please.

Bwaaaaahahahahahahhaha.......Fantastic.

Gflat laugh laugh wink


" You want to play the what !?!"
#413316 - 04/21/03 07:47 PM Re: Technique  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,111
CrashTest Offline
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CrashTest  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,111
I think we must also remember that only because he says he played these pieces, does not mean he played them up to a high level. It is not uncommon for beginners to venture out and attempt difficult repertoire because it is appealing to them. It may be that we are perhaps jumping to conclusions assuming that he claimed he could play them up to concert level, when even he says he "didn't even play it with an orchestra" and "hacked throught the pieces". No other-worldy claims there! laugh

#413317 - 04/21/03 09:53 PM Re: Technique  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,565
Brendan Online content
Brendan  Online Content


Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,565
McAllen, TX
But what on Earth would make you suspect that he hasn't played Tchaikovsky?

Or perhaps a more pertinent question:

Is anyone else bored?

#413318 - 04/21/03 11:10 PM Re: Technique  
Joined: Apr 2002
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StanSteel Offline
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StanSteel  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 646
Los Angeles
I am actually wondering what will be more fun in the long run. Ignoring his posts, or answering and get more of his delightful feedback. Hmm... either way is boring.


"War does not determine who is right; only who is left."

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

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