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Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409756 04/04/06 12:55 AM
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That's the pedal that will hold any notes that are already pressed down when you push the pedal, but it doesn't hold any notes played after you push the pedal.

Read <a href="http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/3/1920.html" target="new_window">here</a> to learn how this pedal works in a grand piano.


Do you ever use it? Personally, I've never used it in any repertoire.

How would it be notated in the score?


Sam
Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409757 04/04/06 01:22 AM
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Sam :

The only piece that comes to mind where I specifically use the sostenuto pedal is in Debussy's "La Cathédrale Engloutie", bars 28 through 41. I use the sostenuto to hold the low C, while changing the damper pedal on the four-note "organ chords" in both hands.

Being accusomted to playing that section with a sostenuto, it would really take some adjustment to play it without it, and I would feel quite compromised if I had to play this section on a piano without a sostenuto.

It's the only piece that comes to mind where I feel I really *need* to have a sostenuto pedal.

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409758 04/04/06 03:55 AM
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I use it the Rach op.33 #4 - there is a passage with a big chord, followed by some staccato chords - but I don't like using the pedal to wash it all together and its too big to hold with one hand, so I use the sostenuto for consistancy (as every other time the motif is used, I play it without pedal). The etude is sounding more and more like some kind of hunting trip (the motif is like a horn - hence why I don't like pedalling it)

Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409759 04/04/06 05:20 AM
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I have used it in Debussy (I think Cathedrale Engloutie, but maybe one other piece, too?) and also for a Liszt Consolation.


Coming back to piano lessons again in my middle age, and enjoying every minute.
Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409760 04/04/06 05:30 AM
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since i have started to use it recently (and for me it doesn't happen easily) i discover more and more scores on which i can use it- Rach's Vocalise, Clair de Lune, Rach's C sharp minor prelude to mention a few smile


"musical training is a more potent instrument than any other because rhythym and harmony find their way into the inner places of the soul" -Plato
Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409761 04/04/06 06:06 AM
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The great thing about it is that you can use it in conjunction with the sustain - very interesting effects can be created in this way.

Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409762 04/04/06 06:12 AM
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If you take a look at Carl Vines first piano sonata, it has sostenuto markings in several places.

In the first measure, you press down five bass notes without sounding them, you hold the notes with the sostenuto pedal, then start playing. Every second measure in the introduction, you play two of the notes that you pressed down silently - since you are still pressing down the sostenuto pedal, it gives the effect that the low bass notes keep sounding, while the other notes in the middle register aren't sustained. Here's a recording, so you can hear how it sounds: www.roberthenry.org

Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409763 04/04/06 07:30 AM
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I've used it in the Shostakovich P & F in F minor.


Private Piano Teacher
MTNA/NJMTA/SJMTA
Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409764 04/04/06 08:55 AM
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I use it in several Debussy pieces like La Cathédrale Engloutie, La Puerta del Vino (both are preludes), and in the opening movement of Pour le Piano.

Chris

Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409765 04/04/06 09:02 AM
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it's nice to play a bass note (kind of like adding organ pedal) and sustain it over 3 or 4 measures) - i just write it in.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409766 04/04/06 09:07 AM
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What a great question. I've always assumed it is only good for some funky jazz technique or otherwise which I know nothing about. I'm suprised how many people seem to use it in their pieces.


Andrew - Shortcircuit85

If you were not sane, you would never misunderstand this question or the consequences of not comprehending its meaning.
Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409767 04/04/06 09:41 AM
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I use it here and there - I used it a bunch when I was accompanying some numbers from the Messiah - it is useful for simulating an organ pedal point without blurring the upper lines.


What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.
Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409768 04/04/06 09:41 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Chris W:
I use it in several Debussy pieces like La Cathédrale Engloutie, La Puerta del Vino (both are preludes), and in the opening movement of Pour le Piano.

Chris
Debussy seems to suit the pedal quite a bit then!I use it as much as possible in the 2nd piece from Images 1 - whenever there is a long sustained bass note that I can hold with the pedal, so that it doesn't get lost under the chords above (as I don't believe Debussy would have put the note value for so long, if he didn't intend for it to be audible). Especially when the dynamics are quiet.

Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409769 04/04/06 09:51 AM
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And, FWIW, in Clair de Lune, E flat octave pedal tone, then Eflat & Bflat pedal tone.


PianoPerfection
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Westchester County, NY
Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409770 04/04/06 09:55 AM
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Is that the part at the start with chords and a crescendo, before the big arpeggios?

Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409771 04/04/06 10:24 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Waterfall:
I have used it in Debussy (I think Cathedrale Engloutie, but maybe one other piece, too?) and also for a Liszt Consolation.
Thanks for the reminder: I sometimes - but not always - use it for the Liszt Consolation Number 3.

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409772 04/04/06 10:50 AM
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I use it in Debussy quite a bit, including Cathedrale and Claire de Lune. Once I saw a performance by a Debussy specialist, and noticed she used the sustenuto very often.

Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409773 04/04/06 12:05 PM
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You can also use it for stuff like the lower C in Rach's 23/7 (cmin)

Before u start playing, press down the C without sounding it and then press in the sostenuto pedal.

Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409774 04/04/06 12:16 PM
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mostly on Bach smile


ss ao lr ue dt on si .u dq ar no on ra qd u. is no td eu rl oa ss
Re: Do you ever use the middle pedal?
#409775 04/04/06 12:20 PM
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I use it every day.


"Beauty is unbearable, drives us to despair, offering us for a minute the glimpse of an eternity that we should like to stretch out over the whole of time."

-Albert Camus,

Jim
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