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#405100 - 02/04/02 03:26 PM time for the ornaments. (oh boy)  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 289
decibel101 Offline
Full Member
decibel101  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 289
Manhattan
posted February 04, 2002 10:51 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please help me guys with all your years more of experience.
Right now we are doing Minuet by I think Christian Petzold??

Any way it has some ornaments in it and they are so hard to do because you have to come in hard on the note before the ornamant and then my teacher says that you have to flutter your fingers kind of like what a butterfly sounds like with no tension in your fingers, and all of this at the same time you have to be soft on the keys not going all the way down so it doesn't sound like a machine gun.

I hate ornaments!!!! mad


Need some words of advice and encouragement confused


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#405101 - 02/05/02 02:40 PM Re: time for the ornaments. (oh boy)  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 560
MacDuff Offline
500 Post Club Member
MacDuff  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 560
Southeast, U.S.A.
I tend to think of ornaments as decorative inconveniences. frown

Your teacher will have much to say about ornament technique. Commonly, one plays a short trill starting above the main note using the third and second fingers. You can use the third finger as sort of a rotation point and wiggle the hand back and forth to support the finger action. It's easier on a well regulated grand piano.

#405102 - 02/05/02 10:15 PM Re: time for the ornaments. (oh boy)  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,467
Nina Offline
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Nina  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,467
Phoenix, AZ
I tend to think of ornaments as decorative inconveniences.

Hmmm, I don't know if I'll ever be able to think of ornaments again without recalling this memorable phrase... smile

I've spent about 2 months (a blink of an eye to a true scholar) reading up on baroque ornamentation, and it has sort of liberated me. I view ornamentation now as a way of putting your own personal stamp on a piece, and I've had great fun and some success in modifying or adding additional ornamentation to some of the pieces I've been playing.

My favorite line regarding ornamentation(although I can't remember whose it was) was something along the lines of: "Any ornamentation will work as long as it's within the bounds of good taste." Sounded like something Martha Stewart would say, if she were a piano player.

I've found it best to slow way down when first adding the ornaments, deciding on exactly what you want to play and how it will fit into the rhythmic scheme... if a trill, how many "shakes," etc. This makes it easier for me to slide them in smoothly when back up to speed.

Have fun!
Nina

#405103 - 02/06/02 03:38 PM Re: time for the ornaments. (oh boy)  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,995
ryan Offline
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ryan  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,995
Colorado
No matter how you slice it, ornaments require practice, practice, and more practice. When I was really struggling with left hand trills, I used to practice them any time I could even when I was away from the piano. Sitting in traffic I would do left hand trills on the steering wheel. Start slow, make sure your hand motions are correct (ask your teacher), and practice. Stop when you feel tired and especially if you start to tighten up. Ornaments are one of those coordination things that it just takes practice to master.

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#405104 - 02/06/02 04:23 PM Re: time for the ornaments. (oh boy)  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 289
decibel101 Offline
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decibel101  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 289
Manhattan
I'm actually really good with the left hand. It's the right hand that's my major issue. I think that I get so nervous about making my hand loose that it get's tense laugh


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#405105 - 02/19/02 03:03 PM Re: time for the ornaments. (oh boy)  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 152
LudwigVanB Offline
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LudwigVanB  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 152
Atlanta
My teacher suggested a way to practice the Bach ornaments that instantly gave great results. Instead of striking the keys at the same location, strike the keys in a stepping motion, like climbing a ladder with your fingers. In other words, in the first ornament in Bach's famous Minuet in G Major (actually written by Potzold) in the Magdelena notebook, the right hand 5th finger plays E they fingers 2 and 3 plays the ornament 2 on C, 3 on D, and 2 on C. Pull back a little so the first C is played near the outer edge of the key, then "step in" a little with the 3 on D and a little more for the 2 on C. I was amazed at how much more smooth and quicker the ornament can be played like this. With practice I can now play them almost as good as Glenn Gould(just the ornaments though, sigh) frown


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