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rach 3 candenza question
#398585 12/24/05 04:11 PM
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ok im just assuming its the cadenza of the first movement of the rach third piano ocncerto. But there seems to be two different ones. Ill use horowitz and cliburn as examples. this takes place roughly 10-11 minutes into the first movemnt and the pino is solo in the horowitz version its flashy start in cliburn its darker, is one a reduction or are they different they both in the same...Just prefer the darker one

Re: rach 3 candenza question
#398586 12/24/05 04:28 PM
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Take a look at the score sometime. It'll answer the question for you. wink


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
Re: rach 3 candenza question
#398587 12/24/05 06:05 PM
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The long one was the original, but it was revised because...it was too long. And obviously the revision is much shorter. And I prefer it.

Re: rach 3 candenza question
#398588 12/24/05 07:44 PM
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well i didnt have the score but i understand rachmaninov wrote two candenzas, I FRICKEN LOVE THAT BIG CHORDAL ONE BABY lol.thge one taht horowitz does feels so transparent.

Re: rach 3 candenza question
#398589 12/24/05 07:44 PM
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and no i cannot type well sorry guys

Re: rach 3 candenza question
#398590 12/24/05 08:03 PM
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Dark Chocolate is for men.
White Chocolate is fore women.

Red wine is for men.
Wine coolers are for women.

Original cadenza is for men.
Shortened version is for women.


"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is never enough for music." Sergei Rachmaninoff.
Re: rach 3 candenza question
#398591 12/25/05 01:02 AM
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Umm...the ossia is the large chords, the fanfaric cadenza. The original is the faster one. wink


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
Re: rach 3 candenza question
#398592 12/25/05 01:07 AM
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now im confused
ok which one was used in shine

Re: rach 3 candenza question
#398593 12/25/05 01:13 AM
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Sam
Re: rach 3 candenza question
#398594 12/25/05 01:19 AM
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The longer cadenza was actually the original one. Rachmaninoff revised it because he felt that it was too dramatic and it was almost an ending in itself - thus upsetting the architectural balance of the piece by "ending it before it was over", and stealing the drama from the coda in the 3rd mov.

Re: rach 3 candenza question
#398595 12/25/05 01:39 AM
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Shine used the ORIGINAL LARGER ONE.


"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is never enough for music." Sergei Rachmaninoff.
Re: rach 3 candenza question
#398596 12/25/05 03:02 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Opus_Maximus:
The longer cadenza was actually the original one. Rachmaninoff revised it because he felt that it was too dramatic and it was almost an ending in itself - thus upsetting the architectural balance of the piece by "ending it before it was over", and stealing the drama from the coda in the 3rd mov.
I thought it went the other way around.... I knew Rach didn't like the 'current' ossia for the reasons you stated. And I suppose Horowitz was of similar mind because he only ever played it for one recording that I'm aware of.

I suppose Rachmaninoff switched the cadenzas and made the chordal one the ossia, and the faster one the regular?


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
Re: rach 3 candenza question
#398597 12/25/05 08:19 AM
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Hurrah, I was right for one! wink

"I suppose Rachmaninoff switched the cadenzas and made the chordal one the ossia, and the faster one the regular?"

Yep. I don't know why, as nearly everyone plays the chordal one anyway...

(this would be a great time for someone to post a huge list of pianists that play the rewritten one)

Re: rach 3 candenza question
#398598 12/25/05 02:53 PM
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The only two I know of off the top of my head are Rachmaninoff himself and Horowitz. (Not bad company to be in... wink )


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
Re: rach 3 candenza question
#398599 12/25/05 03:11 PM
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Hamelin (though I believe I've read that he plays the longer one too), Weissenberg, Kapell, Argerich, Cherkassky, Malcuzynski... That's all I can think of for now smile .


I usually prefer the longer one, just not when it's overly rubato'ed. I love how Gieseking plays it, mistakes and all.

Re: rach 3 candenza question
#398600 12/25/05 06:11 PM
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Gilels also plays the shorter cadenza (and makes a cut in the 3rd movement)

Maybe the shorter cadenza is quite popular then smile

Re: rach 3 candenza question
#398601 12/25/05 06:30 PM
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Maybe the shorter cadenza is quite popular then smile
It is...by almost 4:1. wink


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
Re: rach 3 candenza question
#398602 12/26/05 06:04 AM
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Originally posted by Puckettmeister86:

Original cadenza is for men.
Shortened version is for women.
That's funny, considering both the composer and composer-appointed owner of the concerto were men. I think I know what you're saying, though. Ossia represents power, fierce emotion, strength and resolution while the standard cadenza is wishy-washy, dawdles, and is almost completely devoid of any discernable direction. Or maybe I completely misinterpreted what you said and I'm having a bad episode of verbal diarrhea. whome


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