Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Technique question: hand in stretching position

i recently noticed that when i play with hands in stretching position (full hand span), it is hard to relax so that my fingers or hands or forearms or shoulders would feel tension and tiresome after doing such for a while. for example, when i play the passage such as bar 30 of tempest 3rd movement (RH: C#-E-C#1-D 1245), my RH is in stretching position and my hand(fingers) are not relaxed until i hit the last note D in the sequence, which means my hand remaining stretched throughout the passage. the same thing could be said about tremolos, where the hand position maintains that way until no tremolos left.

so, my question is how you relax your hands(finghers) when in streching position? do you relax each finger after it hit the note or you relax whole hand after a passage played in case you have to remain in such position?

I relax my whole hand after each passage. I can't imagine how long it would take to be able to stretch without feeling the stress.

By definition, stretched is the opposite of relaxed. You can't have both! (And you don't need both...)

thanks Kreisler and Max for response, but the question is not fully answered.

as the example given above: RH C#-E-C#1-D 1245, does each finger relax after hitting each note, or the relaxation occurs only after the entire passage C#-E-C#1-D being played?? because a passage like this causes initially RH stretched to the limit right before hitting 1st C#, my right hand remain that way till the D is played, which means (depending how quick i play this) for the period of playing time, my RH remain strenched till the passage played. then it comes to the problem, if a passage or even a really long passage which needs hand constantly remaining in a stretched position, how do you release the tension or the hand has to be relaxed (after a note hit) and then stretch again (in a fraction of a second) to the same position in order to play the next notes? i am puzzled by such situations, and thought maybe one or two advanced/pro pianists here may give me some ideas about it.

so, please explain to me how do you play a long passage which requires your hand in fully stretched position? thanks in advance!

i think over kreisler's words again, short sentence but nevertheless wisdom, which means there is no way to relax if a passage requires hands stretched fully (since relaxation and stretching cannot coexist as he said). so, if a composition is full of such passages, you will be exhausted at the end. but then again, where the 'effortless' of some good pianists come from when they play? is that because they have been played for long time and have built up their stamina already? ok, maybe that's the answer.

I love to play alot of Liszt, Chopin, and Rachmaninof so i have alot of experience stretching.

Basically, you have to endure and practice the passage until you no longer feel any stress from the hand position.The reason you feel that tension and stress is because your hand isn't used to such odd positions, so if you become physically familiar with them, then its no longer a workout for your hand and muscles.

A good example are the left hand chord rolls in measures 18 and 19 of the Heroic Polonaise. What i did whas i positioned my fingers on all the notes and kept it there until my hand could stretch into that position on its own, without forcing it. I kept practicing this untill eventually i could fly right through the passage with ease.

I recommend you do the same. I also tried sliding a cup between my fingers to slowly stretch them apart.Usually i did this while watching TV and it helped alot too.

ChopinLives81, thanks for the advices which are just what i need! i begin to realize that's all about the endurance.

It is a matter of "teaching" the muscles in the hand that the stretch is OKAY. Playing the piano is a very physical exercise! Any one that has worked out at a gym and then relaxed by STRETCHING knows that there is some discomfort inside the muscles as they are STRETCHED, but after they become OPEN a great sense of freedom and releaxation overcomes the tension. Practice slow stretching away from the piano and massage your hands before and after the exercise then as you practice at the keyboard reherse the measure preceeding the stretch as well as the measure after the expansion of the hand so as to connect the the stressful section to the passages surrounding it. After hours of practice the hand will automatically reach, expand and capture the STRETCH.
I have smallish hands, but a teacher showed me some stretching exerices using the RH to stretch the LH and then the LH stretching the RH. It seemed to work as I can eaisly reach a 10th with no pain or tightness, also OPEN the thumb and PALM of the hand....GOOD luck. DO NOT THINK OF THE FINGERS STRECHING BUT THE PALM OPENING reaching out with thumb and pinky.....
Brenthoven

brenthoven, it makes sense tremendously, thanks, and point taken!

No stretching is necessary in the spot signa has mentioned.

There is no reason to still be holding the low C# when the high D plays. You have to let go on the left side of your hand when the higher notes play.

Brenthoven's advice is also good - think of the palm opening, not the fingers stretching. A lot of teachers use this image for chord playing as well.

Kreisler is, as usual, right. There is no reason to keep the stretch. A lot of people get tired in this piece because they keep an octave stretch for most of the duration. You don't need to if you walk your fingers form note to note, and keep your weight behind the note you are playing.

i definitely got the idea now which i never had realized before even though i felt something was wrong. thanks, everyone, and you've all been so helpful!

It's not all about endurance...

are you sure you are tense because the stretching?

what about your wrist? your shoulders? your head, the rest of your body....

Danor, actually, it is not my wrist but my right forearm and right shoulder feeling tense after practicing tempest 3rd's 1st 2 pages, where all streching, tremolos, octaves occur. left side however never seemed to have any problem, because LH streched at 2 bars only briefly. if you look at those 2 pages, you can see the left hand part is relatively less stressful while right hand part is tougher. i felt my RH was constantly in strenching position without much relief in between and started to wonder if i was doing something wrong. so, i asked this question and am glad that many members here seem happy to help.

i kinda have that problem, too, b/c i have small hands. it's easier to stretch them when i play on a piano that has smaller keys. when i try to play the song 'A Thousand Miles' by Vanessa Carlton, since the range is wide in the chorus and it has a lot of sharps [and sixteenth notes], it's hard to stretch my small hands across the keyboard to play the song right, so the piece sounds choppy, even when i have the sustain pedal down. i don't know whether it's the piano or my piano skills that's causing this. i sure hope this limitation doesn't stop anyone from reaching their full potential when it comes to being a pianist. -alicia*

Hi signa,

Kreisler and others have already mentioned that this is an arpeggiated sequence so you don't need to keep the low C# covered til the end of the passage.

But here's my question: Is that the correct sequence of notes? In my old Kalmus publication, the sequence is C#-A-C#1-D, not C#-E-C#1-D. What publication are you using?

Chris

hi, Chris, i am using the Dove edition. i was just using that bar 30 as an example, and maybe i was wrong about notes (currently don't have it with me). when i learned the 1st page last year, i played those arpeggiated sequences with my RH full span and it was tiresome and yet i was able to learn that part anyway. but since lately i start to get better control of my touch and to get the feel of playing with tension or without in a better degree, thus the tension and tiresome i got to play this piece begin to surface, and i just felt something is not quite right.

yes, i was actually looking for the answer like Kreisler's or yours but wasn't sure until he said it. but the tremolos is another story, where RH has to stay in full span (as my hands can only reach an octave), which i wonder if there is better way to do. Phlebas has said something enlightening and i am experimenting the suggestion. i know the key is to use as little effort as possible with yet maximum results.

roll if you can. Just take your wrist and guide it left and right, and imagine your hand is an airplane and your thumb and pinky are the wings, then you would also do like an airplane does when it rolls and banks. I don't know about tempest in particular, but sometimes you can pick up some of the lower arpeggiated notes with your left hand even if it making a chord out of the LH or something. The moral of the story is, you don't have to follow the fingering in the score.

Chris, you're right, my mistake, it should be C#-A-C#1-D. sorry!

thanks, Mikester, i will try it out. i hope all good advices here would not only benefit me but also others with similar problems.