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Fingering/Pedaling, "La fille aux cheveux de lin" #372857
10/24/08 12:38 PM
10/24/08 12:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 87
Claveciniste Offline OP
Full Member
Claveciniste  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 87
[Linked Image] [Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Hi,

This is my first sojourn into Debussy, and they are sometimes unfamiliar waters to me.

Can anyone offer advice about fingering and pedaling in the two above passages? The first image is one passage, the second and third images are the second passage.

Generally, how literally should the performer try to adhere to the written rhytmic values with the fingers? Some places seem impossible to play literally as written. And how to finger and pedal such wide stratches as bar three of the first image?

What about "clarity" versus "blurring" of different harmonies? I read a comment by Gieseking that in both Debussy and Ravel, the bottom bass notes represents a pedal indication as long as the harmonies don't change.

Any general or specific advice is appreciated. And if anyone can suggest a commercial edition with fingering/pedaling indications by the editor, I'll invest in it.

Thanks!


Yamaha C1 6231705
My other piano is a harpsichord.
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Re: Fingering/Pedaling, "La fille aux cheveux de lin" #372858
10/24/08 12:54 PM
10/24/08 12:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,896
Puyallup, Washington
B
Betty Patnude Offline
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Betty Patnude  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,896
Puyallup, Washington
Claveciniste,

I don't believe we "know" each other, so perhaps my questions seem strange to you, but....

I'm just curious about whether this is sightreadable for you? Six b's experience with cancellations? Fingering planned? Counting no problem?

Why choose this as your first Debussy?

About the 3rd bar: would the black key fingering rules help you a lot?

Fingering RULES for scales reverts to using rules which are consistant:

Left Right Hand
UU UU (Group of 2 black notes)
32 23 Fingering

Left Right Hand
UUU UUU (Group of 3 black notes)
432 234 Fingering

You'll need every finger!

Betty

Re: Fingering/Pedaling, "La fille aux cheveux de lin" #372859
10/24/08 12:57 PM
10/24/08 12:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,394
Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
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Morodiene  Offline
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Posts: 16,394
Boynton Beach, FL
OK, for the first image: Depends on the instrument you are playing, so you'll really have to listen to see what you like best, but in general, pedaling should be on the long notes in the RH melody: on the first beat in the first measure, then again on beat 2, then 1st beat 2nd meas. & beat 2 2nd meas. 3rd meas., pedal on beat 1 and carry that all the way through beat 1 of the 4th measure.

2nd image: pedal on beat 1 & 3 for all measures.

As for fingering, in measure 3 of the first image, you would play the bottom 3 notes with the LH, and the others with the RH. Remember this is a roll, and so you can use fingers 1-2-3-4-5 to get all of the notes on beat one, catch all of that with the pedal, and then hold the pedal while the RH continues up for the rest of the notes.

Pedaling and fingering is very much up to the performer as to what sounds the best and feels the best. There aren't always hard and fast rules. I suggest you try a few different options and see which you like the best.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: Fingering/Pedaling, "La fille aux cheveux de lin" #372860
10/24/08 01:09 PM
10/24/08 01:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,049
Phoenix Metro, AZ
P
ProdigalPianist Offline
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ProdigalPianist  Offline
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P

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,049
Phoenix Metro, AZ
Just a couple of brief comments. This was the first Debussy I really learned and the first piece I chose when returning to piano after 20 years, so I don't think it's too out of line there (of course, I'm not a teacher).

As it was the first Debussy piece I'd learned, I found out fairly quickly that, for me, Debussy is *very* difficult to read (I am a good sight reader, relative to my playing skill), but once it is learned it fits very nicely under the fingers. It is mostly a matter of getting familiar with both Debussy and the key signature (if you're not already).

As far as clarity goes, if the melody sings out above the rest (and as I'm sure you've noticed, almost all the dynamics markings are 'p'!), then pedaling to hold notes that are not physically possible to hold won't muddy. I play it pretty much in line with Gieseking's comment.

I have a very, very marked up copy...maybe I can figure out how to post an image, I've never done that before...


Adult Amateur Pianist

My only domestic quality is that I live in a house.
Re: Fingering/Pedaling, "La fille aux cheveux de lin" #372861
10/24/08 01:31 PM
10/24/08 01:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 87
Claveciniste Offline OP
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Claveciniste  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 87
Thanks to all!

Betty Patnude, I didn't mean to suggest I'm a complete beginner (majored in piano performance in college, so many lifetimes ago), just ten years or so out-of practice.

I don't find too much difficulty with the rest of the piece. But then, I'm not trying to work it up to concert-pro quality (not enough time).

And I chose it because it is just so beautiful to the ear! smile

Morodiene, thanks for giving me something challenging to look into this rainy weekend!

ProdigalPianist, thanks for the suggestion, and if you can get your "very marked-up" copy scanned, I'll help you get it online.

Thanks again to all. I'll print all of it and work through it this weekend.


Yamaha C1 6231705
My other piano is a harpsichord.
Re: Fingering/Pedaling, "La fille aux cheveux de lin" #372862
10/24/08 01:44 PM
10/24/08 01:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,896
Puyallup, Washington
B
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Betty Patnude  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,896
Puyallup, Washington
Good luck and enjoy, Claveciniste!

I had no idea of your background as there was no mention in your profile, and you did say first Debussy, so I had a few questions so ask before seeing if I could contribute something to your posting. I think that has been nicely handled by Morodiene, and I'm sure you'll get other responses!

I hope something said about the fingering might be helpful to you.

You'll never notice the rain!

Betty

Re: Fingering/Pedaling, "La fille aux cheveux de lin" #372863
10/24/08 02:10 PM
10/24/08 02:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,049
Phoenix Metro, AZ
P
ProdigalPianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member
ProdigalPianist  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,049
Phoenix Metro, AZ
Here goes nothing (don't laugh at how marked up it is)

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[Linked Image]

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Adult Amateur Pianist

My only domestic quality is that I live in a house.
Re: Fingering/Pedaling, "La fille aux cheveux de lin" #372864
10/24/08 02:34 PM
10/24/08 02:34 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,064
New York City
pianoloverus Offline
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pianoloverus  Offline
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Posts: 24,064
New York City
I think Alfred Masterworks has a good edition of the Preludes Book I with with extensive fingering, pedal. translations and other advice.

Re: Fingering/Pedaling, "La fille aux cheveux de lin" #372865
10/24/08 03:00 PM
10/24/08 03:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 87
Claveciniste Offline OP
Full Member
Claveciniste  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 87
I love it! Thanks so much! whome wow


Yamaha C1 6231705
My other piano is a harpsichord.
Re: Fingering/Pedaling, "La fille aux cheveux de lin" #372866
10/24/08 03:10 PM
10/24/08 03:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 87
Claveciniste Offline OP
Full Member
Claveciniste  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 87
Pianoloverus, thanks - I should have thought of that, I've used them quite a few times. Maybe I'll brave the rain after all for a trip to Brodt's.

Still, thanks to all, and all advice will get a try.


Yamaha C1 6231705
My other piano is a harpsichord.

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