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#369548 - 08/05/07 03:59 AM Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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marth Offline
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marth  Offline
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So I have the opportunity to learn ALL of the Chopin etudes (op.10 and 25) or any famous concerto.I'm thinking of learning one of the Rachmaninoff or Prokofiev's, 2 or 3.
I know they seem hard but I dont see myself performing in the future so they will be something to keep my mind away from studying.
edit:I might only learn or two movements

I can already some of Rhapsody in Blue but I got bored of it. Currently playing Flight of the Bumblebee and its nearly done.

So which one do you think is more difficult?

PS. I've been playing piano for one year since I was 14 and I practice around one hour a day. (first three months I didn't even pratice at all hehehe)

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#369549 - 08/05/07 04:07 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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pianist.ame Offline
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why not 2 or 3 etudes and a concerto?

1 hour a day would'nt be sufficent if you want to learn a concerto or all the etudes. Why don't you practise more?


Mastering:Chopin Etudes op.10 nos.8&12 and op.25 no.1, Chopin Scherzo no.4 in E major op.54, Mozart Sonata in B flat major K.333& Khachaturian Toccata
#369550 - 08/05/07 04:30 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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marth Offline
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why? Normally, if I'm practising correctly, I wont need to practise more than one hour. And if I keep practising incorrectly not only is it bad habit, it will also take me much longer to play it. So if somethign is not right, I would rather leave it.
eg. like learning a formula wrong and using that to calculate.

Also my lesson time (45 mins) is not enough to do 2 or 3 etudes and a mov. of a concerto.

#369551 - 08/05/07 05:00 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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BruceD Offline
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This is a joke, right?


BruceD
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#369552 - 08/05/07 05:18 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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marth Offline
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Why dont you take me seriously?

#369553 - 08/05/07 05:29 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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BruceD Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by marth:
Why dont you take me seriously?
Perhaps you are a new musical genius and a prodigy as well, and if so, I applaud you - I guess. However, for most mortals who have been playing the piano for only a year - and who didn't practice at all for the first three months, and who practices only one hour a day - the idea of tackling all the Chopin Etudes is quite ludicrous. Most pianists after a year of playing the piano hardly have enough technique to try a Kuhlau Sonatina, let alone all of the Chopin Etudes.

Nor can I imagine anyone tackling a Rachmaninoff or Prokofiev Concerto after one year of piano study. You say you don't have time in a 45-minute lesson to learn two or three Etudes and a Concerto, yet you are thinking of learning all 24 of the Etudes as an option? Who is giving you this "opportunity" to learn all the Chopin Etudes, by the way?

That's why I'm not taking you seriously.

So, tell me, what am I missing here?

Regards,


BruceD
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#369554 - 08/05/07 05:48 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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Jeff135 Offline
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I have to agree with Bruce here.

Perhaps you aren't fully aware of the difficulties of the Etudes and the Rach/Prokofiev concertos?

There are many pianists who have been playing for 10+ years who wouldn't even consider playing the Rach conertos and the complete Etude cycle yet you, after only 9 months of practicing, are able to learn them?

I highly doubt it.


The clown is watching you.
#369555 - 08/05/07 05:55 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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marth Offline
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Well I'm not trying to talk bull.... but I'm not even doing grades.

A concerto movement is pretty long and difficult along with 2 or 3 etudes... And you cant possibly think im going to go through all 24 etudes in one lesson? Maybe 2 or 3 at a time.

I don't think I can convince you so I'll leave it at this.
Anyway, pretend you believe me. Which one would you think?

#369556 - 08/05/07 06:07 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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Jeff135 Offline
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I'd say the Etudes would be more difficult considering a. There are so many of them and b. they were designed to be technically demanding.

I don't believe you are talking bull, just that you may be misguided. I don't know your playing level exactly, but I do know that you being able to tackle these pieces with only 9 months of real experience is near impossible.


The clown is watching you.
#369557 - 08/05/07 06:10 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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marth Offline
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Ok now, how long do you think it would take learning one set eg. op.10

#369558 - 08/05/07 06:16 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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Jeff135 Offline
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A VERY long time given your experience and only 1 hour of practice (that is, of course, if you have the technical capabilities to handle them).

I'm not trying to slam you, it's just that I believe you are making a HUGE mistake by trying to tackle pieces that are way over your head.


The clown is watching you.
#369559 - 08/05/07 06:19 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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marth Offline
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Ok I respect your opinion, so what about Prokofiev's P. Con. 3 mov.3? Is that a little bit easier?

#369560 - 08/05/07 06:21 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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Jeff135 Offline
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It's easier than the 2nd concerto, but it's by no means easy.


The clown is watching you.
#369561 - 08/05/07 06:31 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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drudged Offline
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To tell you the truth...I'll give you my answer...


Neither...

My suggestion?
- Czerny Etudes before the Chopin etudes
- Mozart Sonatas or Beethoven Sonatas before the concerti...

Heck, I kind of find it funny that you're taking pieces on this early with such difficulty? I mean sure, you may be a prodigy, but I kind of doubt it, since the chances of a prodigy even being able to play these at performance level after one year of playing the piano are very unlikely to happen...

Why?

1: Even if you do have the technique for the etudes...(Which I might not agree with for etudes 10/1,10/2,10/10,25/4,25/6,25/10,25/11) You lack musical experience required for these pieces. These are not only etudes, they are Chopin pieces and Chopin is considered as the "Poet" of the piano. They are filled with emotions, and they require a high class of musicality for them to be enjoyed and appreciated. Otherwise...They'll sound terrible and plain.

2: As for the concerti, I advice getting sonatas first. I know you don't do grades, but doing concertos immediately without proper musicallity and just technique...It's just bland...You're not making any music, you're not communicating with people, and that is the aim of being a pianist...To communicate from the composer's point of view, and to bring out great music. If you're simply hitting the notes, then too bad...People around you will only go "cool!" instead of "Wow, what wonderful music!" and surely, you'd like the latter wink (Unless, you're trying to show-off, or impress someone. If that's the case, then I suggest you stop taking piano and go do something more death-defying, like sky-diving without a parachute)

So...Take my advice...Stop these pieces...Go for step one which is Czerny etudes, and some Sonatas....Work your way up and build your expressiveness...Give yourself 4-5 years (Yep, I'm not joking) to learn how to express yourself through music...Then tackle these pieces...

If you don't, then I assure you...You'll make a mess out of what's supposed to be wonderful masterpieces...and you'll send people running away from you and covering their ears instead of listening and submerging themselves with great piano music.

Good luck!

#369562 - 08/05/07 06:41 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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Jeff135 Offline
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Oregon
It seems he/she is too persistent. If anything, he/she will have to learn the hard way I suppose.


The clown is watching you.
#369563 - 08/05/07 06:49 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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drudged Offline
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Tsk...Tsk...Tsk...If that's the case Jeff...Then looks like we've got murdered pieces coming *shakes head*

#369564 - 08/05/07 12:58 PM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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AndrewG Offline
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Something doesn't sound right to me here. marth has to be a one in a million in terms of born with great talents. If marth can post a video or two of his playing to let people watch then sensible and constructive advise can be given. Otherwise ...

#369565 - 08/05/07 03:21 PM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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pianist.ame Offline
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Quote
Perhaps you are a new musical genius and a prodigy as well, and if so, I applaud you - I guess. However, for most mortals who have been playing the piano for only a year - and who didn't practice at all for the first three months, and who practices only one hour a day - the idea of tackling all the Chopin Etudes is quite ludicrous. Most pianists after a year of playing the piano hardly have enough technique to try a Kuhlau Sonatina, let alone all of the Chopin Etudes.

Nor can I imagine anyone tackling a Rachmaninoff or Prokofiev Concerto after one year of piano study. You say you don't have time in a 45-minute lesson to learn two or three Etudes and a Concerto, yet you are thinking of learning all 24 of the Etudes as an option? Who is giving you this "opportunity" to learn all the Chopin Etudes, by the way?
I agree with Bruce, I year of piano and heading for chopin etudes and a concerto, you must be kidding me...

Chopin Etude wise, your technique won't even be strong enough, you could end up hurting your fingers. Prodigy or not...this is ridiculous if you want to work up to this level in a year.

Concerto wise don't even think about it for now, where's all the classical sonatas that you should have learnt 1st?????


Mastering:Chopin Etudes op.10 nos.8&12 and op.25 no.1, Chopin Scherzo no.4 in E major op.54, Mozart Sonata in B flat major K.333& Khachaturian Toccata
#369566 - 08/05/07 03:23 PM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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pianist.ame Offline
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Singapore
and for the Chopin Etudes, it would be impossible to practise a few a day in 1 hour. With 1 hour of work per day how can you expect to be playing these...Anyway that's not the point just work on more basic things 1st.


Mastering:Chopin Etudes op.10 nos.8&12 and op.25 no.1, Chopin Scherzo no.4 in E major op.54, Mozart Sonata in B flat major K.333& Khachaturian Toccata
#369567 - 08/05/07 03:38 PM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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playliszt Offline
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Oh/Fla
To paraphrase Schumann: Hats off, gentlemen... a Prodigy!

With maybe another 15 minutes a day you could knock-off the Chopin-Godowski Studies and the Alkan Etudes also.

#369568 - 08/05/07 03:49 PM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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pianist.ame Offline
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umm, you don't even know him...
Besides i've never come across a prodigy who has learnt concertos or chopin etudes in a year.

I sense trouble...


Mastering:Chopin Etudes op.10 nos.8&12 and op.25 no.1, Chopin Scherzo no.4 in E major op.54, Mozart Sonata in B flat major K.333& Khachaturian Toccata
#369569 - 08/05/07 03:54 PM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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Grane Offline
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marth

it seems the doubters are circling. Put us to rest, perhaps by letting us know what pieces you have played -- not tried. By playing we mean playing all the notes, in time, accurately in a musical way.

One doesn't go from 5 miles per hour to 100 without going in between.


2005 Steinway B
#369570 - 08/05/07 04:03 PM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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Silent Thoughts Offline
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Frankly, if one has to ask such a question on a forum, one must accept the answer of "neither."

And one must take advice from one who speaks in the third person. smile

- Silence

#369571 - 08/05/07 11:42 PM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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ecm Offline
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Republic of Macedonia
Play Prok3! Good Luck!

#369572 - 08/06/07 02:44 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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California
play prok2. i think that's the only thing that will be sufficiently challenging for you

#369573 - 08/06/07 03:46 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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Quote
Originally posted by playliszt:
With maybe another 15 minutes a day you could knock-off the Chopin-Godowski Studies and the Alkan Etudes also.
Oh, you make it too easy. An additional 2 minutes per day will certainly make the Sorabji Opus Clavicembalisticum a cinch.

And think how easily the late Beethoven sonatas will yield. After all, it's just a matter of learning the notes, and that of course will be done between breakfast and lunch.

What a joke, and I'm finished with this idiotic thread.


Jason
#369574 - 08/06/07 06:53 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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Robert Kenessy Offline
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Enebyberg Sweden
Dear marth,
Can you inform us what pieces you have learned (well)? This will give us a better clue what to advise you.


Robert Kenessy

.. it seems to me that the inherent nature [of the piano tone] becomes really expressive only by means of the present tendency to use the piano as a percussion instrument - Béla Bartók, early 1927.
#369575 - 08/06/07 12:52 PM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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hopinmad Offline
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"If you're simply hitting the notes, then too bad...People around you will only go "cool!" instead of "Wow, what wonderful music!" and surely, you'd like the latter (Unless, you're trying to show-off, or impress someone."

Thank you!!! I did that for ages and only in the last year have I come to recognise what wonderful music really is (although I must admit only piano music as I cant justify any opinions on other classical music as I havent listened too much recordings, though I love them). What I quoted there was exactly what I was doing, but now I'm sorted out though!!


Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin
#369576 - 08/07/07 05:47 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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marth Offline
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I didnt expect a yes from anyone, not that that matters. This forum is an interesting place so I decided to start a thread.
I dont think I need to continue any further, so thank you for your time, I enjoyed reading your opinions.

#369577 - 08/07/07 10:16 AM Re: Chopin Etudes or a Concerto  
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Minaku Offline
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Atlanta
To give Marth a bit of insight, I have an adult student who has been studying on his own for a year, who has half hour lessons with me (sometimes an hour), and practices an hour or more a day. He wants to play Claire de Lune, the first Arabesque, Rondo Alla Turca, and Fur Elise.

I told him no.


Pianist and teacher with a 5'8" Baldwin R and Clavi CLP-230 at home.

New website up: http://www.studioplumpiano.com. Also on Twitter @QQitsMina
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