Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Piano Tuning
How to Tune Pianos
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
140 registered members (anamnesis, accordeur, amad23, Agent88, Almaviva, augustm, 36 invisible), 2,014 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#368411 - 10/03/07 12:32 PM fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,868
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member
pianojerome  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,868
http://youtube.com/watch?v=91Byb28Cp50&mode=related&search=

That's a good fingering. It's the same for starting on a black key, also -- just start on 3 (always 3 on the black keys) and then continue as usual.


Sam
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#368412 - 10/03/07 02:27 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,718
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BruceD  Offline

Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,718
Victoria, BC
That's the fingering that I almost always use for chromatic scales.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
#368413 - 10/03/07 02:52 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 395
Robert Kenessy Offline
Full Member
Robert Kenessy  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 395
Enebyberg Sweden
Thanks for posting this. Interesting fingering. Up until now I used what my previous teacher called 'Liszt's fingering'.
Over two octaves starting at C ending on C, going up:
1234123123412312312341231

By the way, Sam, I hope it's not because of the lukewarm (at best) reception of his hair-do in Pianoworld, that mr. Rudess saw a barber... laugh


Robert Kenessy

.. it seems to me that the inherent nature [of the piano tone] becomes really expressive only by means of the present tendency to use the piano as a percussion instrument - Béla Bartók, early 1927.
#368414 - 10/03/07 03:11 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,226
Minaku Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Minaku  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
So... you mean that chromatic fingering isn't standard? >_> I love it when he says "my fingering", as if he invented the fingering he's teaching.

The comments in the section below make me grind my teeth... with what emotion, I can't tell.


Pianist and teacher with a 5'8" Baldwin R and Clavi CLP-230 at home.

New website up: http://www.studioplumpiano.com. Also on Twitter @QQitsMina
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#368415 - 10/03/07 03:24 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member
argerichfan  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
Quote
Originally posted by Robert Kenessey:
Up until now I used what my previous teacher called 'Liszt's fingering'.
Over two octaves starting at C ending on C, going up:
1234123123412312312341231

That's the fingering I have always preferred.


Jason
#368416 - 10/03/07 05:27 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 77
Kevin88 Offline
Full Member
Kevin88  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 77
I use that fingering also, but I never knew it was "liszt's"

#368417 - 10/03/07 06:58 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,665
David-G Offline
1000 Post Club Member
David-G  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,665
London
Quote
Originally posted by BruceD: That's the fingering that I almost always use for chromatic scales.
Same for me. That's how I was taught. I find it very straightforward, and easy to pick up if there is a section of chromatic scale in the middle of a piece.

#368418 - 10/04/07 12:08 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 161
Pahl Bankschuler Offline
Full Member
Pahl Bankschuler  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 161
US
Busoni came up with several very interesting and unconventional patterns for chromatic fingerings. When playing at very high speed he often utilized the fourth and fifth fingers. Also of interest are his fingerings for chromatic seconds, thirds, fourths, fifths and sixths. This is all published in his two exercise books.

#368419 - 10/04/07 12:28 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 231
T.S.R. Offline
Full Member
T.S.R.  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 231
Chicago, IL
I think that's pretty much the standard.

#368420 - 10/04/07 12:38 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 151
BassoonyPianoKevn Offline
Full Member
BassoonyPianoKevn  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 151
Maryland
Quote
Originally posted by Pahl Bankschuler:
Busoni came up with several very interesting and unconventional patterns for chromatic fingerings. When playing at very high speed he often utilized the fourth and fifth fingers. Also of interest are his fingerings for chromatic seconds, thirds, fourths, fifths and sixths. This is all published in his two exercise books.
It's funny how you brought that up because my teacher is currently having me play some studies from those books. I find them pretty interesting and would agree they are unconventional.

#368421 - 10/04/07 02:05 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member
argerichfan  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
Quote
Originally posted by Pahl Bankschuler:
Busoni came up with several very interesting and unconventional patterns for chromatic fingerings. When playing at very high speed he often utilized the fourth and fifth fingers. Also of interest are his fingerings for chromatic seconds, thirds, fourths, fifths and sixths. This is all published in his two exercise books.
Very interesting, Pahl. As one with the highest admiration for Busoni, I would be curious to see those books.

Myself, I have always found the so-called "Liszt" fingering more to my liking. I've always felt it's given me more reliable velocity and legato in fast chromatic passages. Personally -and IMHO of course- I wouldn't want to use anything else in the "Grave" of the Pathetique or the Liszt B minor Ballade.


Jason
#368422 - 10/04/07 08:25 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 389
iconoclast Offline
Full Member
iconoclast  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 389
Ancramdale, NY
for the benefit of those of us unable to view youtube, what exactly is Mr. Rudess' proposed fingering?

#368423 - 10/04/07 08:27 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,618
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
2000 Post Club Member
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,618
Geneva, Switzerland
1234 1234 1234 (thumb on C, E and G#) sometimes works quite well depending on context,especially where a speedy flourish is required. Though it perhaps takes a while to feel happy with the 'thumb-over' character of getting to the G#...

-Michael B.


There are two rules to success in life: Rule #1. Don't tell people everything you know.
#368424 - 10/04/07 10:11 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member
argerichfan  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
Quote
Originally posted by PoStTeNeBrAsLuX:
1234 1234 1234 (thumb on C, E and G#) sometimes works quite well depending on context,especially where a speedy flourish is required.
Dohnanyi gives that fingering (with left hand using 1432 1432 1432 in parallel) for a chromatic scale up two octaves and down. I've found it helpful for practise, though he doesn't imply its use in actual performance, only as an exercise.


Jason
#368425 - 10/04/07 10:42 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 310
Amant Offline
Full Member
Amant  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 310
Southwest
3-1 fingering, pincered fingertips:
e.g., RH starting on F sharp:
3-1-3-1-3-1-2-3-1-3-1-2-3.....

#368426 - 10/04/07 10:44 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,718
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BruceD  Offline

Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,718
Victoria, BC
Quote
Originally posted by iconoclast:
for the benefit of those of us unable to view youtube, what exactly is Mr. Rudess' proposed fingering?
Starting on any key :

RH: 3 on all black keys; 1 on all white keys except for 2 on F and C.

LH: 3 on all black keys; 1 on all white keys except for 2 on E and B.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
#368427 - 10/04/07 02:31 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 133
Shellman Offline
Full Member
Shellman  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 133
East Riding, Yorkshire, Englan...
I was taught 3-1 in the same way as others have stated. I've tried Liszt's fingering but find it uncomfortable but this probably is more due to 27 years of doing it the 3-1 way!!


Best regards,
Jonathan
#368428 - 10/04/07 03:24 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,718
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BruceD  Offline

Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,718
Victoria, BC
I think that the 1-3 fingering will work best for brilliant passages while the 1,2,3,1,2,3,4 fingering probably works best for smooth, legato passages.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
#368429 - 10/05/07 03:47 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 395
Robert Kenessy Offline
Full Member
Robert Kenessy  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 395
Enebyberg Sweden
All this fingering discussion makes me wonder whether a chromatic glissando is possible (i.e. black AND white key glissando). One can reach much higher speed than with a finger scale.

Is there any composition than suggests this?

Or am I consciously trying to be innovative laugh ?


Robert Kenessy

.. it seems to me that the inherent nature [of the piano tone] becomes really expressive only by means of the present tendency to use the piano as a percussion instrument - Béla Bartók, early 1927.
#368430 - 10/05/07 09:48 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,506
AndrewG Offline
2000 Post Club Member
AndrewG  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,506
Denver, Colorado
I use BruceD fingering for normal playing.

For training the weaker fingers I practice with
RH: 5343453434345...
LH: 5454543545454...
These are 13 notes starting on C and ending on C.

#368431 - 10/05/07 01:17 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,480
Bassio Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Bassio  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,480
Alexandria, Egypt
Quote
Originally posted by argerichfan:
Quote
Originally posted by Robert Kenessey:
Up until now I used what my previous teacher called 'Liszt's fingering'.
Over two octaves starting at C ending on C, going up:
1234123123412312312341231

That's the fingering I have always preferred.
Yeah me too.

#368432 - 10/05/07 08:37 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 80
Muzzzz Offline
Full Member
Muzzzz  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 80
Australia
This fingering is used by Busoni in his edition of Liszt's Chasse-Neige, starting on E:

123 1234 12345

It's benificial in that it's the same pattern for every octave, as opposed to the other Liszt fingering which is for 2 octaves.. it's a tad awkward coming down though...

#368433 - 10/05/07 10:11 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,099
Theowne Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Theowne  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,099
Toronto, Canada
Yep, this is what I was taught as well.

Quote
I love it when he says "my fingering", as if he invented the fingering he's teaching.
Or he could just mean "my fingering" as in "the fingering I use"...Which is the way my teacher speaks, the way that I speak, and the way that most people would speak when comparing or teaching fingerings they have learned.

No need to always be condescending....


http://www.youtube.com/user/Theowne- Piano Videos (Ravel, Debussy, etc) & Original Compositions
音楽は楽しいですね。。。
#368434 - 10/05/07 10:15 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 33
kwchang007 Offline
Full Member
kwchang007  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 33
I've always used 1-3-1-3-1-2-3-1-3-1-3-1-2-3 etc.


1977 Mason and Hamlin, Model A, satin ebony-love this piano
#368435 - 10/06/07 08:50 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales  
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,226
Minaku Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Minaku  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
Quote
Originally posted by Theowne:
Yep, this is what I was taught as well.

Quote
I love it when he says "my fingering", as if he invented the fingering he's teaching.
Or he could just mean "my fingering" as in "the fingering I use"...Which is the way my teacher speaks, the way that I speak, and the way that most people would speak when comparing or teaching fingerings they have learned.

No need to always be condescending....
You can say that when you've originated the fingering, or play that fingering in a piece. But fingering for scales don't really belong to anyone (except for whoever created them) since they've been standardized for the most part.

If he said "my fingering" for a piece he was demonstrating, and then did the editorial fingering versus his fingering, I wouldn't nitpick. Also, "the fingering I use" is to me wholly different than "my fingering". Note that no one in the thread has said, "That's my fingering as well."

As for the Liszt fingering, I tried it and it felt quite uncomfortable passing the thumb underneath the fourth when it's on G. Should I be playing closer to the black keys, or does it always feel that way?


Pianist and teacher with a 5'8" Baldwin R and Clavi CLP-230 at home.

New website up: http://www.studioplumpiano.com. Also on Twitter @QQitsMina

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
20+ year old Estonia pianos
by Osho. 10/17/17 03:56 PM
Next General Recital 29 DAYS 11.14.2017
by piano_primo_1. 10/17/17 03:31 PM
Bela Bartok Mikrokosmos excercises
by GHN. 10/17/17 02:19 PM
NOTATION
by MICHAEL122. 10/17/17 01:20 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,347
Posts2,665,273
Members88,982
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0