2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
72 members (accordeur, Beemer, Bruce In Philly, c++, ADWyatt, 8ude, 19 invisible), 1,031 guests, and 553 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Trancendental Etudes, Easiest?
#361505 03/26/08 10:01 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 113
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 113
Ive been listening and skimming through the notes to Liszt's trancendental etudes and it seems like the first one in C major is the easiest? Anybody else know which are easier and which is the hardest? Just wondering which one(s) to begin with.
Thanks =)


Currently Working:
Brahms: Intermezzo Op.119 no.3 in C

Currently Polishing:
Chopin Fantasie-Impromptu Op. 66
Re: Trancendental Etudes, Easiest?
#361506 03/26/08 10:23 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,506
A
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,506
Yes, No.1 is the easiest.

The hardest is hard to say because for advanced pianists each might find a different hardest.

Re: Trancendental Etudes, Easiest?
#361507 03/26/08 11:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,093
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,093
"Trancendental Etudes" translates to everyday English as "Increasingly Difficult Etudes." That might give a clue to what Liszt thought.


Semipro Tech
Re: Trancendental Etudes, Easiest?
#361508 03/26/08 11:38 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,277
J
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,277
BDB, transcendant implies going beyond the norm, but not necessarily in an ascending order. My translation (loosely defined) would be damned difficult etudes. I tend to think of Feux Follets (V) as one of the hardest. I played Harmonies du Soir (XI) and I can assure all that (V) is much harder. They all have their problems to be sure.

Re: Trancendental Etudes, Easiest?
#361509 03/26/08 12:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,093
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,093
The French title, "Etudes d'execution transcendante," under which they were published, means "Increasingly Difficult Etudes."


Semipro Tech
Re: Trancendental Etudes, Easiest?
#361510 03/26/08 02:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,338
M
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,338
Quote
Originally posted by BDB:
The French title, "Etudes d'execution transcendante," under which they were published, means "Increasingly Difficult Etudes."
That would be "ascendante". "transcendant" means transcendental, as in "going beyond".


I have an ice cream. I cannot mail it, for it will melt.
Re: Trancendental Etudes, Easiest?
#361511 03/26/08 03:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 152
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 152
Yeah, I wouldnt agree with the "increasing difficulty" statement either. I play Numbers 10 and 11, and wouldn't get anywhere near 4 or 5 smile

Re: Trancendental Etudes, Easiest?
#361512 03/26/08 03:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,093
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,093
Bärenreiter translates it as "Studies in increasing degree of difficulty." Whether you find them to increase in difficulty or not does not mean Liszt did not. That is why all these discussions about which piece is more difficult than some other are exercises in transcendental futility.


Semipro Tech
Re: Trancendental Etudes, Easiest?
#361513 03/26/08 04:05 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,895
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,895
Sorry, Bärenreiter is incorrect.

Transcendente means these études require a technique beyond anything written previously. As mrenaud said, someone has gotten this confused with the term ascendente.

If you play any of these Études (I play 3/4ths of them) it becomes immediately apparent that they are not ordered by difficulty.

Personally, I find #3 (Paysage) to be the easiest. It is much easier than #1 (Preludio).

Re: Trancendental Etudes, Easiest?
#361514 03/26/08 04:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 959
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 959
Quote
Originally posted by BDB:
Bärenreiter translates it as "Studies in increasing degree of difficulty." Whether you find them to increase in difficulty or not does not mean Liszt did not. That is why all these discussions about which piece is more difficult than some other are exercises in transcendental futility.
BDB, there is definitely no progressive ordering in difficulty -- this is not Czerny or Hanon... Can you provide the exact quote of the Baerenreiter text? I cannot imagine they one of those careful editions would contain such a mistake. The preface of Universal Edition's text refers to "transcendental" as "roughly translated: exceeding the borders of the imaginable".

Re: Trancendental Etudes, Easiest?
#361515 03/26/08 05:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,093
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,093
I wrote exactly what was in the Bärenreiter edition, which is now the EMB edition. You can see the index page with the German version of the title: Etuden in aufsteigender Schwierigkeit, here. That translates directly to "Studies in increasing level of difficulty." There are other editions with the same German title, which no doubt dates from Liszt's first German publication. As I recall, German was Liszt's first language.

That is all from me on this subject. Get off your seats and do your own research.


Semipro Tech
Re: Trancendental Etudes, Easiest?
#361516 03/26/08 05:31 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,895
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,895
BDB, it seems certain that you never concede an argument.

But you are wrong. Furthermore, insulting everyone here is exceedingly unhelpful.

If you played these pieces you would understand that they are simply not in order of difficulty. End of story.

Besides, the German word "aufsteigender" (which you pointed us to) does not necessarily mean "ascending". It can mean "more ascending", i.e. transcendent.

It is clear in French, German, or English.

Re: Trancendental Etudes, Easiest?
#361517 03/26/08 06:00 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,895
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,895
Quote
Originally posted by BDB:
Get off your seats and do your own research.
OK, here is some research:

According to Jim Samson in his book "Virtuosity and the Musical Work: The Transcendental Studies of Liszt", the composer "used the Haslinger edition of the Grandes Études as the basis for the Stichvorlage he sent to Breitkopf & Härtel".

"The entire set was published by Breitkopf & Härtel the following year (1852) as Études d'exécution transcendante, and Liszt was careful to point out that this was the 'seule édition authentique revue par l'auteur' ..."

The original title - authorized by the composer himself - was in French, which Liszt spoke fluently.

Re: Trancendental Etudes, Easiest?
#361518 03/28/08 09:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 113
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 113
Lol BDB, I definetely know that NO.5 is way harder than almost all of them, and its in the middle of the set so I dont really think there in order, even though NO.1 MAY be the easiest it doesnt mean the whole set is in order of difficulty.


Currently Working:
Brahms: Intermezzo Op.119 no.3 in C

Currently Polishing:
Chopin Fantasie-Impromptu Op. 66

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
100,000!
---------------------
NEW! Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
New Korg announcements in a few days...
by clothearednincompo - 01/15/21 12:17 PM
Estonia 190
by Walkman - 01/15/21 12:02 PM
My 'Gentle' and 'quieter' tuning technique
by Beemer - 01/15/21 10:46 AM
The Yamaha CFX ???
by DigitalMusicProduc - 01/15/21 10:39 AM
Hello, I'm back.
by CarlosCC - 01/15/21 10:30 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics204,263
Posts3,046,923
Members100,063
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4